Visualization for Bombing runs


  • Admin

    Wanted to know if it would be possible to add a visual component to the target selection window for Bombing runs.

    The current window appears as this...

    0_1504762314720_Current bombing window.png

    However I was wondering if a visual component could be added like this...

    0_1504762361464_Proposed bombing window.png

    The issue was brought to my attention that if you have multiple of the same target in the same territory one perhaps with damage and the other that does not... currently there is no way to tell them apart.

    https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/pull/2339


  • Admin

    That would bee a cool thing. It would be so much quicker and easier to pick the wanted target. 👍


  • Admin

    @hepps So seems there are kind of 2 asks here (1 more of a bug and 1 more of an enhancement):

    1. Should be able to see existing damage on bombing targets
    2. Would be nice to have unit images for bombing targets

    You may be able to solve both by showing current image but I'd say at a minimum we need to at least provide the existing damage amount.


  • Moderators

    I reported it here:
    http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-a-collaborator-for-making-a-Science-Fiction-Space-based-map-tp7470042p7585392.html

    In particular, it's very clumsy using it against units you can have in a number greater than 1 per territory.

    This is because, upon bombing or rocketing, you will receive a list of

    "
    Select bombing target in X
    YYY owned by ZZZ
    YYY owned by ZZZ
    YYY owned by ZZZ
    YYY owned by ZZZ
    YYY owned by ZZZ
    YYY owned by ZZZ
    YYY owned by ZZZ
    YYY owned by ZZZ
    "

    And you don't know who's what, who's damaged, who's not; you have to divide the bombing, moving each unit separately and keeping in mind the last line you bombed; in general, all very clumsy and unfriendly.


  • Moderators

    @redrum I always assumed that, due to the way the bombing is displayed, you were supposed to never have more than 1 same type of bombing target in the same territory. This is definitely a bug for TWW (not just usability, as you really can't decide what you are bombing) and won't make feasible to adopt bombing for the moving units of the newly coded train sistem.


  • Admin

    @redrum Well I suppose you could call it a bug.... that seems a little unfair since TWW is, to my knowledge, the only game where you can have multiples of any potential bombing target.

    Up until now I have always looked on it as more of a situation where given the time period (for almost all maps) and the lack of real time GPS and satellite tracking or effective radar that choosing bombing targets was kind of a loosey goosey sort of affair and that once in the air bombers made their best guess that they were on target or even on track to the right target.

    Truth of the matter is at least the engine is consistent in representing the targets... they seem to always appear in the same order even when you send units in separately on the same target terr. (as you need to do when there are multiple options in the same terr.) . The only thing is you have no way of knowing which might be the one you hit the turn before and currently has damage.

    And yes this request really came out of the development of trains and rails since now you can potentially have many of the same types of unit in a single territory.

    Lastly, I've kind of been holding onto this one for a while as I really loved the addition of the mini map in the retreat window. Something about clear visualization seems to really reduce the perceived complexity of even really demanding situations. But given the volume of work the team has had on its plate during the last year or more... up until now... the time just never felt right to make more requests than were absolutely necessary.


  • Moderators

    @hepps It doesn’t work as a randomiser, so you can save the game before ending CM, load a second game on local, do the bombing raids you want to see and memorise what you need, potentially knowing exactly, then, what you are targeting (I know, very clumsy), going then back to the first game you are playing (and left on hold), targeting exactly what you want.
    However, I would reformulate this request under 4 possible ways:

    1. Having it showing the status of the different targets of the same type you have (practically, like now, but displayed).
    2. Offering only 1 target of the same type, and always targeting the one having the highest damage, already.
    3. Offering only 1 target of the same type, and always targeting the one having the lowest damage, already.
    4. Offering only 1 target of the same type, and choosing the actual target randomly.

    My suggestion is choosing one of the above 4 behaviours, for this undefined matter, and implementing it.


  • Admin

    @cernel Yes I have used that in the past... just saving and doing a test run... then using that info. for the real match. Just a time consuming hack.


  • Moderators

    @hepps Up to the developers but, in my opinion, when the only workaround is loading up a save and testing, then reloading another game, I'd see this as a bug, rather than usability.


  • Admin

    @cernel Yah I guess I just feel bad calling it a bug since it really (ATM) only affects one map... and the resulting behavioral issues are really only an issue because of the engine changes we did to make this one map (thus far) possible the way we envisioned it.

    The only reason I started to think this might be a worthy project was because with the inclusion of rail and trains (that new property set) more maps are likely to have multiples of the same units in a terr.


  • Admin

    @hepps @Cernel Given that you can have multiple bombing targets of the same type in a territory, I'd consider it a bug and created a bug post for it: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/2333


  • Admin

    @hepps Initial changes, feedback welcome: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/pull/2339


  • Admin

    @redrum Looks great! Left a comment on GitHub. Well done.


  • Moderators

    @redrum In case you didn't think about it already (I don't know), I think the thing should have these two characteristics:

    1. Not presenting multiple of the same if they are in the same state (for example, if I have 99 airfields at 1 damage each and 1 at 3 damage, just showing 2 airfield targets, as being able to pick one of the 99 all at 1 damage would be pointless).
    2. Having a scroll bar, only in case there would be a long selection (my suggestion is the display up to 80% of the screen, then scrollbar if it would exceed).

    Also, minor note, if you want to be very friendly, I'm thinking showing the damage as X/Y, where X is the current and Y is the max (whichever the lower between the max that the unit can take and the level at which it is destroyed).

    Nice improvement, of course.


  • Admin

    @cernel @Hepps Changes should be in the pre-release now. It would be nice to group units that are the same and have the same damage but that would require significant work. A scroll bar should pop up if you have more than about 10. I took a look at showing max damage as well but unfortunately it would take a decent amount of work to add.


  • Admin

    Is it possible to see SBR damage in territory tab too?


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