💥 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread

[wc_sumpton]

@thedog said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

Perhaps the HARD-AI does not like something, but we need to try and find what for the Devs.

Sea Zone 109. If Russia is changed to Fast AI, then the player "scrambles" to help in its defense. By removing that battle, combat happens normally. So, the Hard AI is getting stuck on it scramble code.

Cheers...

[JohnnyCat]

YOU QUESTIONS

Do you have a Mac?
Do you game with ezgaming, as he says the same, it crashes late game?
You appear to have edited the map, as Corsica & Sardinia have had their defences removed, yes?
Do you have your version of the start of the game? What Im after is your changes to the downloaded version

MY ANSWERS

Yes I use a Mac. I’m wanting to get a new VERY GOOD PC system for gaming on steam but have yet to research that. If you have any suggestions for a new 2024 Best Class of PC gaming systems I’d love to know.

Yes Eric (EZ GAMING) and I play together often

Hmm as for mods I did this game from scratch and did not mod Corsica or anything. The ONLY thing I changed was giving the axis 200% resources since it’s too boring to play with realistic axis resources lol

But seriously I did not mod the map pieces at all and am confused by this. Could it be that you are referring to that last thing Eric and I posted ? We posted three little battles against neutrals that we just wanted to know why our intuition was off but you explained those well and now we know to take terrain and such into account

YOU ASKED
D o you have your version of the start of the game? What Im after is your changes to the downloaded version

And all I have is the G1 save that o posted here

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
Thanks for the info, I need it for posting on GitHub for the Devs.

Also, what version of 1941 GCD are you using?
You can find it by Select Game (button)> and highlighting 1941 GCD

[JohnnyCat]

Ah I don't get that at all mate. I get this :

While I have your attention I just noticed the manual here as well and wanted to ask you to decode the mountains stats for me. And is the word "are" meant to be an "or"?

THANKS

Johnny C

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
You are on v165 or earlier, I have tested it with 170 & (175 unreleased) it still crashes, so thanks!

Mountains
Any ground unit with Atk: 2+ are -1 Atk when Attacking, eg Tank 3-1=2 Atk
Def: Any Infantry ( but not Inf-Motorised) & AntiTank +1 in Defence

[beelee]

@thedog

since there game just started and froze, they might want to go ahead and update to latest before trying another one

[JohnnyCat]

@beelee ok well ensure we have the newest version. Thx

[JohnnyCat]

I downloaded a new version of TripleA 2.614787

And I see a new 1941 Global Command Decision game!

This is version 1.170

The saved game I sent you still hangs sadly...

Where would I get version 1.175?

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
175 is under test, should be out early August.

The current 175 still crashes, I have raised it on GitHub for the Devs.

[JohnnyCat]

@thedog OK Thank you - I (and some of my friends) LOVE THIS GAME VERY MUCH

But we sure do have some suggestions for improving it. So IF you folks are interested in our suggestions where should be post those?

In any case, while we try to find ways around the incessant crashing, as we have done for a year now, is there any way we could help out to actually debug the thing? I hesitate to even suggest that, however, as I would think you have a well established, well oiled machine and would not need, nor want, other new programmers, lol.

I'm just anxious to finally see this thing running smoothly no matter what game play decisions we make and/or any custom troop scenario setups we do to it.

Like I said, I am just LOVING this game.

As a complete aside, do you know of anyone that plays the old Avalon Hill Boardgames such as Panzer Leader and Panzer Blitz ? I was quite young when I was exposed to those and they were sort of on the way out back then but I recall enjoying those games quite a bit and would love to find people that play those out here in Silicon Valley, CA.

Cheers and thanks again. PS. If I choose the "Select a Game" option from the TripleA engine code, I do see a manual (is this the entire manual?) but more to this point, I see Black Elk (graphics/testing) and TheDog (code/testing).

So are you the only two people on this? And if we have suggestions for making some changes to the piece graphics do we DM to Black Elk?

And when you said, "Thanks for the info, I need it for posting on GitHub for the Devs." What "Devs" are you referring to? I guess I don't have any notion of the structure to all this but I am figuring that you are referring to the TripleA engine itself ; and that must be difficult... Getting your actual game code to mesh with the engine I mean. I just envision the left hand not always knowing what the right foot is doing, hahaha. (OH and are you still expecting anything from me?)

Cheers mate, I look forward to you and your mates checking out these bugs we are finding. Again no offense intended, this game is OP !!! But like all code, it's rarely never perfect until much time has gone and many people using it...

[beelee]

@johnnycat

Hi cat

Glad you are enjoying The Dog's/Elk's creation I know he and @Black_Elk are pleased that you are

I can answer a few of your questions.

wc_sumpton was also heavily involved with GCD. Mostly from a coding point, but also game play suggestions.

The Developers are the ones who work on the java code that makes triplea work. The game code that map makers use is xml and is quite different.

There are currently two main devs, although wc does some occasional work as well.

Here is a link to Map Making https://forums.triplea-game.org/category/28/map-making

The first topic Elk explains how to adjust images with gimp. You can use your own customized images for the map. They don't have to be the default ones.

Just continuing to play the game is probably the most helpful way to find future bugs.

I believe Dog is in a European time zone fwiw

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
Thanks for all the praise!

@Black_Elk johnnycat lives in Silicon Valley, maybe you guys live close?

Post all your comments/suggestions here, we will work out, who does what.

So talk to your friends and just one of you post your top 5 suggestions and maybe a few will be incorporated.

However, 1941 GCD xml (the coding/programming) is probably near its limit as to what the TripleA engine will allow, so it will be variations on a theme. As GCD already has lots of features that other maps do not and for the most part is a well oiled machine.

As Im the original designer/coder I have the final say as to what's in/out, but others are welcome to fork/copy my work and do their own vision/version.
(As a nod to wc_sumpton has given this map lots of clever code over its development)

But, you found a new bug and we have Devs who will probably fix it. You have given me/Devs all you need to for now, hopefully they can fix it and it will benefit us all.

.
Manual
Accessed from

1. "Select a Game" as you have already
2. Within 1941 Global Command Decision (GCD) Help> Game Notes

Both ways list the same information.
.
The Manual is in 4 parts (keep scrolling)

1. Game Notes - like a marketing flyer, high level notes to grab the reader attention. (1 long page)
2. A Prologue sheet that applies to all players (1 page)
3. Nation specific information (8 pages)
4. A more detailed manual (Currently 14 pages, also as a PDF)

All documentation is held
\triplea\downloadedMaps\1941_global_command_decision\map\doc\images
Including the PDF, but as you are on a MAC you will have to work it out where that is on your PC, as I'm a Windows user.

Enjoy!

[beelee]

@thedog said in 1941 Global Command Decision - Official Thread:

others are welcome to fork/copy my work and do their own vision/version.

One way to approach this, depending on what's suggested, is to create any changes as a "Game Option" that can be toggled on at Game Start if desired.

Will not affect the original map that way. If the changes are compatible for a Game Option and the labor required is deemed worth it

[TheDog]

@beelee
Like it, well you learn something new everyday

[beelee]

@thedog

heh heh well It's retaining what I learn is my biggest challenge

But yea, I have used it extensively and it works well for most things

[JohnnyCat]

Hello again. Here is a new game - and for Italy Turn 3 and 4 (the current turn) Italy has received 0 (Zero/Zed) PUs.

Is this intended for some reason or a bug?

The game save Japan 4 is attached.JJ4.tsvg

PS. I'm starting to get a feel for how the game units interact - I just hit a lone infantry and with 2 bombers and the bombers won, but I'm having a difficult time understanding what planes can and cannot hit effectively. So far the bomber unit appears almost worthless - and it seems like EVERY TIME 2 bombers bomb a bunker or one of those infantry making units, a bomber gets shot down. This does not seem right.

In summary I cannot get a good feel on what the air units are good at doing. And, apparently, various Air units are stated as being unable to attack certain targets but I have found no rules that specify what targets they can/cannot hit. Unlike the base game, this game seems to not allow bombers to hit ships. Which is probably a great idea but it is frustrating to not find any guidance on this in the manual - or if it's in there I am too impatient to see it, hahaha.

ANYWAY Now I love this game even more !!! So any help on what units can and cannot be effective at would be a great thing to add to the manual. And yes I do see statements like for anti-tank units the popup text will say "...good for defense..." but I would like to know way more and see examples...

Johnny "not a patient gamer" Cat

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
Italy probably has too many units for the territory PUs, most units on the map consume -1 PU per turn. The map was not designed to have 200% PU bonus.

Another omission in the Bombers tool tip, they cannot target Ships.
Thanks for plugging away at trying to understand the mechanics and making the game better!

Bombers v Infantry only attack at 1, whereas a Bomber-Tac can be 2 and with Blitzkrieg 3 attack.

Bombers are strategic bombers and their best use is attacking industry, like history.

[JohnnyCat]

@thedog Awesome comments mate - so THANKS. And please be assured that I mean well and if I "criticize" I only intend to share my frustration so that either my attitude can be corrected and/or the game might benefit from some change.

For example, I have NO IDEA what a blitzkrieg is in this game and I have been playing it for a year. Could you please explain this?

Not only that, but OFTEN I will have troops that start at a factory and can more 3 only to witness them not being able to make that last move. I can move that unit to other terrain that is 3 away, but weirdly it will not move to the terrain that I need it be get to. Sometimes this route is over an allied territory but sometimes this is happening in all one country's territories. There are probably more than 1 rule going on here but I see no documentation on this.

Similarly my mates and I have had a wonderful time speculating on whether or not the airborne units can work. This thing is truly useless to us as we NEVER know when an airborne unit can work. Some times it can transport one inf to where we want 2 territories away, but never 3. But sometimes it cannot... This is so badly broken that I cannot even list the error here so all I can say is that these airborne units feel like they behave randomly to me. I would love to read the rules for airborne.

I'm guessing that this game needs more documentation and probably an entire page on airborne as it seems that one airborne unit can sometimes transport 2 inf... but mostly just 1... and apparently only a special inf and not the cheaper ones... so there are many details there.

More confusing stuff: Some country's cruisers and battle ships appear to be able to transport inf and EVEN TANKS. While others do not.

And you mentioned today "most units on the map consume -1 PU per turn." This is confusing and not intuitive and we often see a country that we think should get 300 PU instead suffer a penalty of -120 PUs.... Yet there seems to be no documentation on why this is. And through trial and error we have come to believe certain things but then we will find exceptions. So if you could explain this country PU limits thing I would greatly appreciate it. If indeed this is the case with Italy - and Italy can barely make much of an impact as it is, then I would suggest changing that or removing it completely.

Oh and I am suggesting this from a GAME PLAY perspective. I'm generally not too interested in "realism" as the point of these games, at least for me, is to have fun and play around what many "what if" scenarios. And as Eric or I have previously mentioned, we don't want to play a WW2 game where Germany always loses but the we all counts it as a win if German loses by turn X.

We'd rather just see a game loosely connected with reality in terms of the starting setup and maybe some perks that country was known for, but be more like a game of chess in that any side could win. And if these PU limits are what I now think that they are based on your comments, then the USA will never suffer from this and the European Axis elements will always suffer from this, and that is just silly to me. I'd rather have a switch to turn this off completely for game play reasons.

As I hope you can see, I love this game but am quite frustrated at the details - and not because it is too complex but rather because I simply cannot find meaningful docs when I need them. And I do see that there are many details in various tool tips or wherever but I suspect that they have more meaning to those that already know the rules and the details. I'm getting the feeling that this game could benefit from having some completely new players attempt to play it in front of the devs... Then you might be able to better see what things are not documented enough.

Oh and having to shut down the TripleA and then select "Select Game" to see what little documentation there is, is also baffling. Could you add some sort of HELP and/or RULE option during play?

Again you have my utmost respect and I fully realize that I might be too impatient to really see some details that "might" in fact be there. But I do suspect that many other people would have reactions similar to mine and those of my mates here in California

PS. Who of you lives out here? It might be nice to meet up for game some time

Johnny

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
In game help, is in game.
Help> Game Notes

This works for most maps in TripleA

.
For Blitzkrieg open the PDF manual and search for Blitzkrieg as below

For Germany & Italy (so not Japan) they have a tech called Blitzkrieg
A Fighter gives +1 Atk if paired with a Bomber-Tac or
Armor gives +1 Atk if paired with a Bomber-Tac

Its 12:30 in the morning here in the UK, Im off to bed. I will answer more tomorrow.

[TheDog]

@johnnycat
The Airborne rules should be the standard A&A rules for movement

One big difference the Air-Transport can carry 2x Inf-Elite or 1x Inf-Trained

I'm guessing that this game needs more documentation and probably an entire page on airborne as it seems that one airborne unit can sometimes transport 2 inf... but mostly just 1... and apparently only a special inf and not the cheaper ones... so there are many details there.

From Inf-Elite tool tip

From Inf-Trained tool tip

.

More confusing stuff: Some country's cruisers and battle ships appear to be able to transport inf and EVEN TANKS. While others do not.

All Battleships can transport 1 Inf-Trained or 1 Inf-Elite
All Cruisers can can transport 1 Inf-Elite
Currently Battleships can transport Armor-Lgt. Thanks this will be fixed next release.

.

And you mentioned today "most units on the map consume -1 PU per turn." This is confusing and not intuitive and we often see a country that we think should get 300 PU instead suffer a penalty of -120 PUs.... Yet there seems to be no documentation on why this is.

Page 6 of the manual

.

If indeed this is the case with Italy - and Italy can barely make much of an impact as it is, then I would suggest changing that or removing it completely.

Removing the upkeep/maintenance of -1pu/unit is not going to happen, as it is fundamental design of most of my maps.

Perhaps this map is not for you then?