Large Middle Earth queries

mattbarnes

Hey - one more game mechanic observation: after I foolishly lost Rivendell, my Eagles no longer repair at the end of my High Elf turn. Is that deliberate?

alkexr

@mattbarnes I think this is an engine thing, ask @redrum
In any case, at this point I'm sufficiently fed up with all the problems around capitals that I will simply not use capitals in the next version. It's not like you would want to give up your capital even if it was just a normal territory.

mattbarnes

No problem, I'll ask Redrum. However, I'm interested in your intent as creator: I'm playing PvP and find myself with non-repairing Eagles. Should we consider it a game error and Edit each round to correct this, or should we just accept the game as it is?

redrum

@mattbarnes Whether you control your capital I don't think influences whether your units repair to my knowledge. Do you have the save game?

mattbarnes

@redrum Yep, here it is.0_1527063152473_M&M1.tsvg

redrum

@mattbarnes I don't think that is the right save game as I see them repairing in the 4th round...

mattbarnes

Sorry. This one: 0_1527150174137_M&M2.tsvg

redrum

@mattbarnes @alkexr So the engine behavior is correct as this map is using this repair property:

				<property name="Two HitPoint Units Require Repair Facilities" value="true" editable="false">
					<boolean/>
				</property>

And eagle units are defined as repairing themselves:

					<attachment name="unitAttachment" attachTo="eagle" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.UnitAttachment" type="unitType">
						<option name="isAir" value="true"/>
						<option name="movement" value="8"/>
						<option name="hitPoints" value="2"/>
						<option name="repairsUnits" value="1:eagle"/>						
                                                <option name="attack" value="4"/>
						<option name="attackRolls" value="2"/>
						<option name="defense" value="3"/>
						<option name="defenseRolls" value="2"/>
                    </attachment>

This means if the player that owns the eagles loses their capital then the eagles won't be repaired as for 'repair facilities' to function for units the unit owner must control at least one of their capitals. Whether that is what @alkexr intended is a different question and I'm guessing that the use of that property and units repaired themselves was done for some other reason and this is probably a side effect since it isn't mentioned in the notes.

Here is the code snippet and explanation for reference:

        // Damaged units can only be repaired by facilities if the unit owner controls their capital
        if (!TerritoryAttachment.doWeHaveEnoughCapitalsToProduce(damagedUnit.getOwner(), damagedUnit.getData())) {
          return false;
        }

alkexr

@redrum Aww. That means I either have to

accept that eagles don't repair after losing capital
accept that by repairing 2 out of 3 hitpoints a turn dragons and mumakil are crazy op
create 1px x 1px capital provinces in the top left edge of the map for every player, disconnected from everything

I guess I can always just make dragons and oliphants even more expensive. At least it will feel good to steamroll with them

redrum

@alkexr Oh, you are using the facilities repair to get around that regular repair always heals all HP. While I generally don't like more properties this might be a case where a property like "Repair Facilities Don't Require Capital Ownership". I think your options 1 & 3 are reasonable as well if something like that isn't added.

Hepps

@alkexr Or you could just remove the requirement for facilities.

redrum

@hepps That would be choice 2 and cause the 3 HP units to potentially heal 2 HP in 1 turn. Probably the worst option as then they are crazy OP.

Hepps

@redrum Ahhh forgot about the three HP units.

Then the secondary hypothetical capitals would work perfectly.

mattbarnes

In the short term, should I assume that the non-repairing Eagles are unintended and therefore use Edit to correct, or do I just accept that "the game is the game" for now?

alkexr

@mattbarnes Non-repairing eagles are clearly unintended. But it's up to you and whomever you're playing with to decide how you handle the situation. The intended rule is "repair", the game-enforced rule is "don't repair", you have to decide which is more important to you.

mattbarnes

Hey one more minor point for your list, in case you want to hear it: it appears as though ships can travel up the river through Tharbad, even if the town is in enemy hands. Presumably not intended?

mattbarnes

Still loving the game, by the way.

alkexr

@mattbarnes I used territory connections instead of canals, because canals just simply refused to work. I have asked it like three times on the old and the new forum, got no response. Feel free to make them work

Cernel

@alkexr If you ask again, I may take a look. Canals always work for me so far. You can also make canals that, like, allow some (the bigger) ships to never be able to pass through, so having only some ships being riverable (like the small ones yes if you own the canal but the big ones never in rivers). Probably better in a separate topic, but whatever.

redrum

@alkexr Glad to take a look as well. You should be able to have cities on the river act as canals. Civil War uses canals extensively for both rivers and rails so has lots of good examples: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/triplea-maps/civil_war/master/map/games/Civil_War.xml