Image Icons
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The following is actually a reply to @redrum redrum 's newest post in the Fuel Enhancement thread. I just think that it has more to du with Image Icons
:The changes look nice
I hope it is still the plan to add icon explanations to the purchase window bar. We can't be sure this explanation will be in the map notes, and can't be sure the player knows about or uses tooltips, plus we would maybe like to have all players on the same page when it comes to finding words that describes and names the resource, like:
Resources remaining: 120
(PUs), 23 Beers (
) and 6 Fuel (
)
If not, an Icon free purchase window might be preferred.Considering most, if not all other, information the player get in-game is preceded by a specification or explanation, in form of a menu or tab text, or : like by the Player, Round info of the bottom bar, would it not be a good idea to have the bottom bar also include short explanations like:
"Resources: 120 (+32)"
"Belarusia: 5"
"Territory type:
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@frostion I understand your concerns but I would like to at least start with the direction of minimizing text on the main UI. Given that most maps only have 1 resource (PUs) I don't think it really matters at all for those maps and that's probably 80-90% of the player base. The rest of the players that tend to play more advanced maps, I'd consider most of them a bit more open minded and probably have experience playing other strategy games. Looking at what I would call other lead TBS games that have done way more research/testing than we ever will, most of them use icons fairly extensively and don't tend to have much text around them as it tends to clutter the overall message and how quickly people can interpret the information. Examples:
- Civ 5: http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/541899155249193781/32326AE698D836B1CA51233D34F6C5A059305C24/
- HOI4: https://cdn4.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/HOI4-9.jpg
For this first iteration, I'd like to release with minimal text and see what feedback we get. If players are confused or ask for more text/context then I can quickly add it in. I'm hoping after people play a few games with just the icons that it becomes second nature.
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@redrum I suggest an improved tooltips.properties file. So if shifting towards image centric style. Would be nice to fix that bug gap that I reported. As well as add more than units to the properties file, maybe territory tooltips as well. (And the "I" hotkeys.) So a map maker can decide what is important information to display if needed.
The only other thing that comes to mind is use of different colors in the various values. Specifically the abilities and incoming resources. I see civ uses colors extensively. Although I do have mixed feelings of emulating those games too much. I think our niche or bread and butter so to speak, are games that can be completed fairly quickly. As well as customizability and creation of games ofcourse.
Late addition: Also resources should have customizable tooltips. -
@general_zod Agree. I'd like to improve tooltip customization and consistency. Using colors is a tough one since we have to support so many different maps that I don't want to force much default coloring on map makers as they might use certain colors to highlight other things that would then conflict with the defaults. Example would be they use say red border on unit images to indicate a 'defensive' unit then we make all the attack value text appear red.
I think there may be some cases where it makes sense to have certain thinks highlighted with certain colors but we need to be careful. We'd need to probably have some separate threads to discuss specific items that we'd want to consider adding default colors to and what those colors should be. Also whether we'd want map makers to have the flexibility to override them.
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I think we can have a tendency to over think things... I was just looking at the example for Iron War from the other thread. Bear in mind I have only played the game once or maybe twice.
In looking at the example I found it very intuitive to get the meaning of 100% of everything displayed in the example. This includes the things that have never been explicitly defined to me... such as the sonar scope in the Destroyer unit image which is meant to define it as a destroyer unit. Or the geometric icons that differentiate the assorted distinct mechanized unit types.
Don't get me wrong...I think revisiting the tooltips is an awesome suggestion.
But I also think we need to give people enough credit to be able to work some of this out in their heads or at least show enough wherewith-all to read the game notes. If a maps iconography is so muddled, indistinguishable, or convoluted that a player cannot translate the images meaning... well then perhaps that has as much to do with the game design than it does with the engine needing to spell everything out explicitly.
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I just want to apologize if my comments seem harsh or abrupt. They are really just meant to serve as a reminder about how fixated we get on the details of things despite having EXCRUCIATINGLY LIMITED resources. When you look at this objectively we currently have a handful (or a partial amputees handful) of individuals working on features, feature requests and engine improvements at the play level of the game mechanics. Then we seem to dissect the improvements being worked on as though we have inexhaustible resources to throw at them.
So using this as an example.... we are pursuing this as a method of cleaning up and condensing the display mechanics in an effort to support the further development and usability of consumable resources within a game. Then, even though this represents just one branch of the over-all objective.... we are now getting bogged down in details that are already usable in their current state. Even though there are still several other components of the over-all objective that need to be addressed in order to make this feature truly usable.
So if I seem argumentative or abrupt... then please accept my apology and understand that it is just the project manager in me that focuses on the prioritization of completing a broader goal over getting bogged down in the details of one specific component.
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@redrum I just loaded 9220. The new features look great, nice job.
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Cool. And yeah, the pre-release now has the changes. Next step is updating all the default icons we include in the engine to have a 20x20 and 48x48 size. @Hepps Is starting to work on it
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@redrum using right now as well good stuff!
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The following are some of the suggested 20x20 resource icons to add as default options to the engine. The existing ones can be found here and could consider resizing some of those as well: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/tree/master/game-core/assets/resources. Goal is to provide a base set of resource icons but map makers can always override with their own. Feedback welcome!
@Frostion I added a few of those from your maps to the list. I'd like to keep the base set simple/consistent though so if you'd like the DW ones to be considered then I'd need a version without the yellow glow.
Wood:
Tools:
SuicideTokens:
Stone:
TechTokens:
PUs:
Oil:
Metal:
Manpower:
Leadership:
Iron:
Steel:
Gold:
Food:
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@redrum Like em all! One small point for the suicide one I question if it can be the kami tokens from the old maps? The skull works fine for me tho.
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@prastle The suicideToken one is primarily for global 40. Are there other maps that use suicide/kami tokens?
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@redrum I seem to recall all of them did if kami was turned on. Just a point for the old players that liked kamis. I was never a fan. Just was mentioning.
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Do you mean this thing?
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@hepps well the original maps had a kami symbol. Skulls work fine for me. I was just suggesting we use the Original Kami symbol for those that might play with them.
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@prastle Yes... I got what you are saying....
But I looked in global and there is no unit. The one I just posted is the only think I could find. If there is some other image post it here or let me know which game folder I can find it in.
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@hepps I never play kami so i am recalling from the originals
Perhaps pull an image from HOI2 in @RogerCooper collection of maps?
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@prastle it had kami as i recall but that was hmm 4 years ago
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@prastle Find where it is... post the original image here... and I will recreate a smaller version.
Otherwise I have no desire to go hunting for some obscure icon.
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@beelee what's rogers home page again?
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