WW II v5 1942 2nd Edition
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I'd like to request a feature regarding the optional rule sz16 (Black Sea) not being accessible to ships as per the A&A 1942 2nd Edition board game (released ca. 2012) and how to implement this rule when playing against the AI?
Between human players, this isn't a problem but playing against the AI, there is a reasonable chance for ships to be sent to sz16. I noticed that the other optional rule Raids may be preceded by air battles has a check/uncheck box in Map Options. Therefore is it possible a similar option can be incorporated into this map, or if not, is there another way to be able to implement this option?
I know this map is probably not played very often but it is a map I would like to use to introduce people who can't get to an actual board game, interested in A&A and of course TripleA.
As an addendum, I believe that WW II v3 also has this optional rule (not in OOB but in the FAQ) so it could be a good idea if this rule can also be implemented in that map too.
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@scousemart
This was already discussed in Optional SZ 16 rule. There is also a link to a xml edited for this purpose.Hope this is helpful!
Cheers...
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@wc_sumpton Correct, but that is a workaround an unsupported optional rule of at least two games. The solution of having a mod with the canal would mean turning an option into another game (like if having tech optional would not be supported, and you would need two games for every game that can have tech).
Also, if hacking has to be, I prefer the "solution" I used for v3 Tech Advance (that I think it is also less hacky, but I guess this is arguable).
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@wc_sumpton Another hacky way to implement this rule would be using the parallel/serial canal property, and code the canals so that true blocks and false does nothing, but that would be really confusing on the user, as the property name would give really no hint about the matter.
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@scousemart My guess a way to do this that may be fairly telling on the user, as well, would be having a property that define if canals controlled by Neutral block or not, and then adding a canal dependent on Turkey. This is really a strange situation, as you would think that a mapmaker should make up its own mind, and actually decide if there is a canal somewhere or not, rather than having it optional on the user (especially since it is normally a good abit to graphically show canals, and you cannot switch that), but this is the way it is for the games that gotta be supported, if you know what I mean. Anyways, having a way to define that canals owned by Neutral should not block might have some value on its own, more generally.
Side note, World War II v6 has the Turkey canal default, while Classic and Revised never have it; so it seems you-know-who was undecided on the matter for about the decade in between.
Now we'll have to wait and see if Axis & Allies & Zombies has the canal or not or optional.
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@wc_sumpton I looked at the thread you mentioned and I'm not very technical minded when it comes to coding or programming, but from what I understand and also seeing what @Cernel also refers to, the discussion and the zip file, changes the game so the canal is permanently closed. Is that correct? Whilst I can see the benefit of doing that, I was rather thinking of an actual check/uncheck option. I realise it might be a bit of a tall order and if I had any skills in this area, I would be tempted to have a go myself.
@Cernel also mentioned in my first posting about this (in the wrong thread...) something about a property to switch canals on or off. You'll have to excuse me if I'm quoting you incorrectly.
So the million dollar question can it be done as an optional switch or is it too messy/complicated? -
@scousemart @Cernel
The xml that I posted in the other thread does just that with an option 'Block Sea Zone 16 (Black Sea)' which is left uncheck for false but if check blocks SZ16 from all sea units. Air units may still fly over. Is this not what is requested? If not then disregard the xml.Sorry for the confusion.
Cheers...
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@wc_sumpton Apologies for any confusion caused by my previous post. Following the instructions on the previous thread you linked to, I replaced the xml file with the downloaded link and it works. There is a box in the map options which can be checked/unchecked to block sz16 for all sea units.
Thank you. I'm curious why the map isn't updated with the xml you supplied. After all, it replicates the OOB game precisely.
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@scousemart
You are very welcome!! There is no need to apologies, I am just happy that this is what was requested.Adding this as a mod to the map I feel would cause more confusion.
Anyway, I hope you enjoy your game!!
Cheers...
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@wc_sumpton I'm curious to why you think adding this feature to the map (or are you talking about adding a mod), would be confusing?
The issue I had with the map was the implementation of a option rule, which is in the rule book, so I cannot see why the map xml cannot be updated, so whenever someone downloads this particular map and wishes to play against the AI and use the sz16 block, then they can. Otherwise they will have the same problem as me. -
@scousemart
As @Cernel has said, there are may way of implementing this. Also the original author may want this as a 'Human' enforced rule only.So I don't think it would be fair for me to directly change the xml.
Hope this answers your question.Cheers...
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I would replace the v5 map with the file that allows for the sz 16 connection on/off checkbox in the map options. A checkbox is better than a human enforced rule in my view, since it's less open to interpretation/exploitation. I'm sure its happened before where the Russian player was under the impression that the canal was closed and the German player then moves in on G1, with arguments and sour grapes ensuing. Or maybe someone just forgets, because they have a couple PBEM games going at once, and can't remember which rule is in effect. With a checkbox everything is clear from the outset, the same way we have the map option for "Raids may be preceded by air battles."
I'm guessing most of the people who worked on the WWII maps aren't around much anymore, and V5 is probably less relevant now than it was before AA50 was reissued. Probably, if they're not playing Global, they're going to play v3 or some other tripleA original game, but who knows maybe the sz16 thing will breathe a little life back into 1942.2?
I know Veq thought v5 and especially v6 were pretty silly, so I can't see him caring one way or the other. Haven't seen Hobbes in a hot minute... not sure if he played with sz16 open or not? Somehow I snagged that special thanks at the bottom of the notes for whatever was pilfered from v3 and brought into v5 under my TripleElk handle, (even though Kevin and Mike did most of the heavy lifting for v3, I guess I'm the last man standing there lol).
For what it's worth I feel that having the Bosporus open helps the Axis more than the Allies on this map, and vanilla v5 is already heavily skewed in favor of the Axis. So if anything I'd suggest that players are better off closing the canal, and maybe it brings the bid down ever so slightly? That said, the manual describes the rule as optional, so I think it's better to keep it open by default with a map option to "close sz 16" as the last listed checkbox.
In my experience Germany is hard pressed to do anything useful with the Regia Marina on G1, esp if the Allied bid is going to the Brits. Probably, if sz16 is closed, the German player just guns for Gibraltar sz14 or stays in place sz15 to dump a couple dudes into Libya. If the Axis dominate the med into the endgame then sz16 open can be a nice spot to build a late game German fleet out of the Caucasus factory, once Russia has been thoroughly broken and they get some cover from the Japanese. A push from the USA through the med to an open sz16 seems less likely, though I guess that would be the play from the Allies. Otherwise I think it's mainly a G1 thing, where the Axis player just wants to go balls out against Russia, by dropping more heat on Ukraine or taking Caucasus outright. Just one more headache for an already under-powered Russia to deal with. Clearly Stalin is hoping for everyone to stay the hell away from sz16 haha
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@black_elk Actually, this is the same for v3 too, not only v5 (while v6 has it just closed). What I wonder is if in the new release they have integrated the errata in the new rulebook, as v3 didn't have it "out of the box" in the previous edition? Is the rulebook of the new Anniversary edition just the reprinted old one, or has it been updated (with the errata etc.)?
As now, I believe the only map in the repository having such an option is my "WWIIv3 1941 Tech Advance", you can find in "WW2v3_Variants".
Not intending to touch any clones myself, but I wonder what the developers ( @redrum @LaFayette @RoiEX) would feel better, amongst the following possibilities, for an integrated option:
1- Having a default pointless (always passable) canal and closing/opening it, with triggers.
2- Adding an impassable territory effect in sz16, with triggers.
3- Making Neutral into a utility player and changing relationship options to allow passing through canals, with triggers.
4- Using the serial/parallel canals property and creating two canals so that it will be like a canal exist if serial and no canal exists if parallel (no triggers needed).
5- Something else. -
@cernel I've just had a look at the new rule book online (Anniversary Edition), and it seems to be the same as the original edition. There is however an errata which I downloaded from WOTC's site which has the optional rules for sz16 and air battles preceding SBR's. I think it is a dumb idea to have these optional rules as an errata, since if you were a new player to A&A, you might not think of looking on WOTC's web page to see if there might be an errata or FAQ. However, that is just my opinion. I agree with @Black_Elk that the map xml should be updated to include the sz16 check box, but I also understand what you are saying in finding a common way to integrate such options in this and other maps.
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I don't play the map... but to me adding the check box for the canal seems like a no-brainer since the game is intended to be played both ways. It would surely be very helpful if you are playing the AI.
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@scousemart
It has been confirmed on https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41079.0 that the new rulebook (AA50) includes most of the errata and FAQ. For any reason they missed to include the optional rules, but it has been confirmed, too, that those are still part of the official ruleset. -
@panther said in WW II v5 1942 2nd Edition:
@scousemart
It has been confirmed on https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41079.0 that the new rulebook (AA50) includes most of the errata and FAQ. For any reason they missed to include the optional rules, but it has been confirmed, too, that those are still part of the official ruleset.Thanks. I'm still wondering why the optional rules were not included in the official rule book, but I suppose we'll never know for sure...
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@scousemart I can only assume that - as it was a reprint and not a new edition - the given layout of the rulebook did not allow for adding the additionally required text. But that's speculation
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@panther Yeah, I see now in there they updated the rulebook, like heavy bombers are best of 2 o.o.b. too now. By "most of the errata and FAQ" you mean all of the errata and some of the F.A.Q.?
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@cernel By "most of the errata and FAQ" I was referencing this sheet: http://www.wizards.com/AvalonHill/rules/AxAl-AnEd_Errata.pdf
and this statement:
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41079.msg1740140#msg1740140
