EV + Started Lobby columns

Cernel

@lafayette said in EV + Started Lobby columns:

@prastle @Cernel Are you strongly in favor of keeping 'stated' column or okay with removal?

Neither one, nor the other. I said "quite useful" and I meant it literally; like in "fairly useful".

prastle

@lafayette EV is only useful if we started listing the complete engine version number. Game started is only useful for mods in finding ghost games. If you are going to remove Game Started then please try and fix the toolbox so that right clicking for host info on a bot or hosted game does not lock up your Java when it has a ghosted game. Mods don't want to have to attempt to join games just to see if they have ghosted. It is also quite annoying having to kill your java and rejoin the lobby because the tool box locked up. Perhaps a, " Could not connect for host info!" pop up error could be added to the toolbox instead of it just locking up? Similar to the Could not connect one for joining a game?

LaFayette

Okay, I understand the real problem is really that toolbox freezes when trying to check ghosted games. Failing that, mods rely on started date. But.. I've done the same, started date is only so useful, the round number and player count are frozen, and usually there is a comment like "join this game".

M opinion on this is we are hurting the UX for all players, showing a useless column for them to make up for the fact we have a bad bug in moderator toolbox, which is how we are supposed to find out if a game is ghosted. Personally I don't think it's a good trade off, even if this is useful for moderators, we are cluttering the UI for every player every time. Unnecessary UI elements are quite bad, not only are they not useful themselves, but they add clutter and make all other UI elements less valuable, hence I'm pretty confident that even if we have this one use-case, it's not worth it, particularly when there are other workarounds for mods, and using the start column is itself a work-around.

LaFayette

I've created a bug report about the toolbox problem: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/3729

Please keep in mind unless there is a ticket, as far as devs are concerned it is working (so random messages of, 'this is broken' i would suggest are misguided, we need tickets and instead refer to the ticket number).

prastle

@lafayette Also one other scenario that occurs often in the lobby is from actual hosts that lockup and then they just fire a new room without closing their locked one. Often they then ask mods to close/remove it from the lobby. Without a start time we won't have any idea which one to boot. Without once again attempting to join. Just my two cents.

LaFayette

@prastle said in EV + Started Lobby columns:

@lafayette Also one other scenario that occurs often in the lobby is from actual hosts that lockup and then they just fire a new room without closing their locked one. Often they then ask mods to close/remove it from the lobby. Without a start time we won't have any idea which one to boot. Without once again attempting to join. Just my two cents.

I've experienced that problem, how do players know which one to rejoin? That is the biggest issue there IMO, and hence why I say there is often a comment. I've gone up to 4 reloads before and had comments like "reload #3"

IMO the start column is only useful because it is a workaround. We really should fix the locking up ghosted games, get them booted automatically, and fix toolbox.

I think a reasonable short-term solution would be to hide the started column for standard users and display it for moderators.

LaFayette

@lafayette said in EV + Started Lobby columns:

I've experienced that problem, how do players know which one to rejoin?

My point there, is while it's a problem for moderator, it's a MUCH larger problem for the game players, and they do not necessarily use the started column to solve this (mainly nobody trusts it as often the values reported make no sense).

Hepps

@lafayette Also this goes back to the old adage of... "Teach a man to fish". People can solve their own locked hosts themselves. I do not want to spend my days deleting peoples jambed up java issues. If they have locked their Java... close it. If you cannot press 'Cntrl' +'Alt'+'Del' then I don't feel I need to spend my days deleting peoples old hosts.

prastle

@lafayette ok that would work as well. The problem is I suspect the general users make use of it to find the new game room/table.

Hepps

@prastle Does the "In Progress" and "Awaiting Players" not address this issue?

prastle

@hepps No. The only way to discover is by trying to join a game. Personally I would change that column as well. To just waiting and started. or something quite Shorter and less wordy.

prastle

@hepps The reason in progress does nothing is because the locked bot stays in progress

Hepps

@prastle A player is going to point that out immediately. And since we have BOT numbers... finding it is hardly an issue.

prastle

@hepps we don't have host numbers Hepps If I launch four rooms they all stay the same other than comments

Hepps

@prastle Again.., your personal host gets locked... close your Java... I'm not a god damned custodian. I do not want to be sweeping up your trash for the rest of time.

LaFayette

@prastle "all stay the same other than comments"

This was my point, having ran into this issue and needing to coordinate restarts on a new port, I used the comments to indicate which was the latest game, not the start. Mods should be able to do the same, players and mods have both the same problem here of identifying which of two games is the frozen one.

prastle

@hepps HEHE and I agree completely. Just make sure you write the tutorial to teach them how to close highest java for windows/mac/etc. in a forum thread

LaFayette

I think the lock up issue is perhaps only hard to fix because you can't get the process back to the foreground to ctrl+alt+delete it, you have to kill it from task manager IIRC.

prastle

@lafayette correct
and most users get lost there.

LaFayette

Ya, started column exists and is not helping them, it's not the solution : )
Having ran into this exact problem, both as a player and mod, started column is not useful (from my experience) : )

As-is, my plan is to make the 'started' column a moderator only column. Least then that utility will not be removed, and players will benefit from less clutter on the UI.