Middle Earth: Battle For Arda - Official Thread
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Front Porch is given as a "cave", but I suppose it should be a "mountain", instead. If so, it needs to be fixed. If not, then the details are confusing, as that looks like a mountain, like all other actual mountains.
Anyways, the "cave" concept is questionable. Where there is a cave, there is a mountain too, the cave being inside it. So, if I should move into mountains, shouldn't I be able also to move into a territory with a cave without actually going into the cave?
For example, if I'm able to move into mountains, and I'm in "East Mountains of Angmar", why do I have to go into "Mount Gundabad", or anyways exit the mountains, to go into "West Grey Mountains". I think I should be able to stay into the mountains, instead. If I am a mountaineer, I think I should also be able to move between "East Mountains of Angmar" and "West Grey Mountains" also in case "Mount Gundabad" if in enemy hands, as I don't need to enter the caves, but can walk on the mountains, over the caves underneath them.
I don't get why am I obliged to enter caves if I am a mountaineer and want to move on a same mountain range with a cave in between.
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I think balance is quite fine the way it is. If you play dice anything can happen so its balanced. As a evil player you have too set up your strategie regardless of good play early on, you have first move and can dictate the pace. Angmar is not a problem, remember no capitals so you can flee with your units somewhere else if you feel uncomfortable over there, walls will keep your cities up for 6 turns.
So far with evil i prefer too take Rivendall with Orcs, too prevent eagle number going up too fast. I send Saruman too block Tharbad since with a wall hobits have no way too break through.
Eventually in later stage i tried too support or invade rohan with mordor since they have a free hand vs Saruman. Its a roll over defense concept, while Orcs carry the attack, i tried too support them with Angmar and Saruman, then mordor supports Saruman. Rhun have enough speed too support Mordor lines too.
Evil has a fighting chance, just remember that you need hills or forest for defense.
Enjoy the map, and give me a shout if you want too play. -
@Cernel There are little entrances drawn on those mountains, like with all other cave territories. The source of confusion is probably that Front Porch is the only cave territory that's not also a settlement.
"Cave" territories are usually extensive networks of underground halls, tunnels and fortifications in the lore, with many entrances. You could try to move over them without actually entering the caves, but the defenders certainly wouldn't simply sit still and let you do that.
@Dany Interesting. If you flee from Carn Dum as Angmar, where would you go? It's not easy to find a position as easy to defend as your starting cities. Or is it just to buy time?
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@alkexr So how about Front Porch, is that a cave or a mountain?
You have not convinced me. For example, let's say I've an army of all mountaineers and in the cave there are units that are all not mountaineers. If the cave is in between of two mountains, and part of that mountain range, how is it possible that units that are not able to move in mountains can block me from just moving over the caves through the whole mountain range?
In my opinion, what you said would be true only for the units that are in the caves and are mountaineers too, only.
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@Cernel Nothing would stop you from moving through based on your argument. However, consider that the game is an abstraction. Perhaps the fact that ground units move two or more spaces makes it feel that the units are "moving through." If we simply consider that all ground units must seek to control any and all territories that they move into, then simply running through a territory is excluded -- again it's an abstraction, even if it does not tickle all of our imaginative scenarios. If a unit wants to pass through a territory without constraint, then it needs to fly.
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@daneffuller Further to that you could inturprete that the territories with caves are only traversed via the caves themselves and would be otherwise impassable. Thus in order to move into or through such a territory that you would be forced to use the caves themselves.
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@alkexr because of walls and distance Angmar cities will survive a long time probably 7 too 8 rounds. I flee south with the starting unit to support Saruman's hold of Tharbad and Goblins rush of Rivendale. Then buys help out too keep the 2 cities, but i don't fight for the land around the cities. Taking Rivendale is often a big blow too ennemy morale!
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@Dany did you go to Cernel's school of grammar
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@Captain-Crunch Keep it respectful and on topic.
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he doth protest too much amiright
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This game is truly beautiful. My boys and I have been enjoying it while at home during COVID. The territory effects make the game seem realistic and create physical boundaries to angles of attack into certain regions. Very cool. The unit attributes are very important and take a while to learn, but are worth it and add realism to drive strategic and tactical decisions during purchasing. Thanks to the developers for making a very enjoyable, stand-out game.
I agree with some that the evil side has it harder than the good side. The rangers are too powerful at a cost of 6 PUs, in my opinion. Making rangers more expensive could help slow the good side rushing into evil regions, especially through mountain borders. Also, it seems that the dragons and winged nazgul are afraid of any territory with an archer in them. This seems off and hampers the options of the evil side. I suggest the archers be coded as "damageable aa" so that they don't kill dragons and winged nazgul on the first shot, but just damage them. "Damageable aa" can be added as a game option that can be turned off if desired, and including it will increase the strength of the evil side a little bit. "Damageable aa" is not unbalanced in that a winged nazgul still can't feel completely safe attacking solo against an archer. If the archer hits in aa fire and then hits in first round of combat, goodbye winged nazgul. Or a dragon going solo against two archers is still a bit risky. If the archers hit once during aa fire and then both hit during first round of combat, then goodbye dragon.
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@daneffuller said in Middle Earth: Battle For Arda - Official Thread:
I agree with some that the evil side has it harder than the good side. The rangers are too powerful at a cost of 6 PUs, in my opinion.
Noted in my metaphorical notebook.
I suggest the archers be coded as "damageable aa" so that they don't kill dragons and winged nazgul on the first shot, but just damage them.
The archers are coded as damageable. Maybe there is a bug?
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@alkexr Thanks for your consideration. I probably remember an older version where archers appeared to shoot down winged nazgul in one shot -- my mistake. If it's coded in, then we are good. BTW, have you thought about a FFA version with diplomacy? A FFA version might be fun to play. Makes me think of the negotiations between dwarves, elves, and men before the battle of the five armies.
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I've been having fun experimenting with different alliances. Here's the best I came up with. It's a balanced game that makes for way more strategy options, including the Western part of the map. I've been running it with AI on Hard and the teams seem fairly balanced.
Second Darkness: Dol Guldor, Mordor, Angmar, Orcs
Arkenstone Pact: Dwarves, Woodland Realm, Northmen, Freefolk
Voice Oath: Saruman, Rohan, Ruhn, Harad
Last Alliance: High Elves, Lorien, Arnor, GondorI plan to play this set-up over the next few weeks with my sons. I'd like to know what other players have experienced with this or different alliances. (Just go into Edit mode change the alliances and save the game with the new alliances in place.)
BTW, I tried a few alternate alliance concepts with Gondor and Rohan aligned, but it was always very imbalanced. Gondor is very strong and has great geographical advantages. In addition, I found that Rohan was too weak against Gondor if not given a partner to keep it afloat; hence the Voice Oath -- Saruman using his enchanted voice to deceive lesser men to buy into his vision of a new order. Also, In the Northeast, Esgoroth, Erebor, and Elvenking Halls are too weak and in too close a proximity to survive battle against each other -- I believe that they must all three be aligned together for each of them to have a fighting chance and for each to maintain a presence long term.
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What a phenomenal map! Every faction feels unique. Still getting a feel, but for example that the freefolk lack any trebuchets or catapults (which feels fine lorewise) makes me use them very differently than a sieging faction.
I don't know what the consensus is on balance right now. I dunno if Angmar is supposed to get whomped on quickly, but a very minor tweak that might favor them would be to lower PU in West Angmar, East Angmar, and West Rhudaur, and increase it in West Mountains of Angmar, East Mountains of Angmar, and North Misty Mountains. Or something like that. I'm scratching my head as to why Ettenmoors is worth 3 unless you want to encourage fighting over it?
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Four alliance update: Played Arkenstone Pact vs Hard AI and Voice Oath vs Hard AI. Currently playing Second Darkness vs Hard AI. Overall, the game is balanced, challenging, and fun. Battle fronts are in continuous flux and shifting often. So far for us, it takes about 20 rounds for one alliance to gain the upper hand.
Where available, the players and AI produce many Rangers and can control large swaths of land with stacks of Rangers, moving as needed from one front to another without hindrance due to mountains — very strong advantage.
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Proposed balance adjustments: 1) Nerf Eagle movement to 4 or increase cost. 2) Increase ranger cost by 1. The High Elves - Freefolk snowball is just too strong. 3) Consider decreasing uruk_warrior price by 1.
Or implement all 3.
Have been playing with all three settings: eagle range nerf, ranger +1 cost, and uruk_warrior -1 cost, and it feels much more balanced to us. It really doesn't change the feel much early on, as it doesn't change starting units or unit balance by much (eagles excepted). What these changes do, is make it harder to snowball and encourages more unit diversity.
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Four alliance update: We've played all four alliances to winning result now. The games are very interesting and the whole map has undulating battlefronts. So far, Voice Oath seems strongest due to protected rear territories, and Second Darkness seems weakest due to fewer defensive options.
Here are a couple of suggestions to consider -- these go along with others that have been made to balance the overall game and strengthen Evil: For Angmar and Dul Guldor, there are few cheap defensive units available to enhance stacking to control key territories and pinch points. This limits strategic options, including attrition battles, strategic retreats, and capital hold-out strategies.
I suggest making the barrow wights cheaper and giving them a movement of 0 or 1. This would create a very unique unit, a very special feel when playing Angmar, and aligns with Middle Earth lore regarding Angmar being a haunted, ruinous realm. I also think it would be interesting to give Dul Guldor "Lesser Spider" instead of the Shelob-like (Mordor-like) Spider unit that it currently has. The lesser spiders could be cheap, defensive units that prefer wilderness or forest to keep with the lore of Middle Earth, specifically The Hobbit.
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Strategy question (standard 2 alliances): does Saruman normally bag Tharbad early then redeploy against Rohan, holding Tharbad to the degree necessary to be a bottlestop against the Freefolk? Do the Freefolk simply mass against Tharbad or are other strategies common?
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And do Gondor/Harad naturally have a naval arms race ticking-along in parallel to the Gondor/Mordor face-off?
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