Fighters landing on carriers being built
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Hello.
I am playing G40 Balanced - Balance Mod 3.3 with Combat Move first. Currently, the United States has some naval units blockading Japan.
As Japan, is it legal to move fighters to the sea zone in Japan for combat if they need all 4 movement points to get there as long as the Japan player is purchasing carriers at the end of the turn? The game prevents the Japanese player from making this move, but I can't find clarification in the rules as to whether this should be disallowed or not.
Here is a visual of the situation.
Thank you for your time.
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@James-McMullan yes i believe so even though the engine is not allowing it, but perhaps someone else has a more informed opinion.
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Yea I just noticed that on 20234. It seems as if i only use 1 ftr it lets me move correctly but if I use 2 it doesn't. I'm gonna do a little more testing then make a git issue
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@James-McMullan This is a known problem of the "Combat Move first" - game.
At the time of moving, the engine does not "know" that you will purchase a fighter later (after moving).In regular games (purchase before moving) this issue does not occur and the situation is resolved correctly.
It has been discussed in a Github-issue, that I will search when I find some time for it.
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@Panther Thank you so much--I figured Combat Move first was causing the issue; but I wasn't actually sure you were allowed to fight with planes that have to land on a newly built character. So in the meantime, it would be legal for my player to "Edit mode" the fighters into the battle (although it turns out you need to edit mode some carriers in, then the fighters, then delete the carriers, but it can be done) as long as he committed to purchasing the required number of carriers as if every plane survived, right?
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Are you sure that this is not correct behavior?
Depending on the map,
If placements are done before movement, then, during the movement phase (before or after combat), there can be platforms there to hold the fighters.
If placements are done AFTER combat / after-combat movement, then there are no such carriers there by the end of those movement phases. How can a fighter land on a carrier that is not there yet? Aircraft losses due to no landing point would be resolved BEFORE any placements take place.
Placements are distinct phases from movement. One has to be done before the other can begin.
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@James-McMullan Correct, you need to enforce the result by using Edit Mode.
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@tinfoil666 BM is following the core G40 2nd ed. rules. Combat Move First here is not intended to change core rules, but implemented for "convenience reasons" only. Some players simply prefer moving before purchasing (for whatever reasons).
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@Panther battle outcomes could affect purchasing decisions.
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@ubernaut said in Fighters landing on carriers being built:
@Panther battle outcomes could affect purchasing decisions.
Here it is:
Combat Move
Purchase Units
Conduct Combatinstead of:
Purchase Units
Combat Move
Conduct CombatI am not familiar with other maps with CM first, though, so only arguing for this specific map.
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@Panther yeah buying before combat definitely requires a more conservative approach.
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@ubernaut said in Fighters landing on carriers being built:
@Panther yeah buying before combat definitely requires a more conservative approach.
If by "combat" you mean "Conduct Combat", what I believe @Panther is telling you is that both phases orders are having you "buying before combat" (not sure what you mean, instead, if by "combat" you mean "Combat Move").
Really, everyone putting a "Combat Move" phase before the "Purchase Units" phase for merely convenience reasons should take care fully to document the matter in notes, like I did in my v3 modifications.
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@tinfoil666 said in Fighters landing on carriers being built:
Are you sure that this is not correct behavior?
Depending on the map,
If placements are done before movement, then, during the movement phase (before or after combat), there can be platforms there to hold the fighters.
If you mean the actions you do during the "Mobilize Units" phase, "placements" are done after both "movement" phases in both cases, here. So, in both cases, there is no "platform" to hold any fighter, yet.
If placements are done AFTER combat / after-combat movement, then there are no such carriers there by the end of those movement phases. How can a fighter land on a carrier that is not there yet? Aircraft losses due to no landing point would be resolved BEFORE any placements take place.
They can because the rules says so since v2 LHTR. First of all, the fighters don't necessarily end their movement during the "Combat Move" phase, and, in fact, they often do so during the "Non Combat Move" phase. Secondarily, the "Non Combat Move" phase is still before the "Mobilize Units" phase, but this is irrelevant, as the fighters land only at the end of the "Mobilize Units" phase, so they are still hovering the zone, waiting for the needed carrier to be placed under them. Ending movement and landing are two different actions: You don't land when you end your movement (unless the rules say so, which they don't, since v2 LHTR).
Placements are distinct phases from movement. One has to be done before the other can begin.
Correct, but here "movement" doesn't matter. What matters is "landing", that is not part of any "Move" phase and it is, in fact, part of the "Mobilize Units" phase, instead, happending at the end of it.
@Panther Please correct me if I got anything wrong.
