Warcraft: War Heroes - Official Thread

redrum

@Frostion Good to hear. And yes, @Alexei-Svitkine has made some AI performance improvements the especially impact very large maps.

Frostion

@redrum
Any news or theories on the issue where AI keeps stacking units at capitals? Since this also seem to affect Dragon War (in both instances making the AI very passive), I suspect it is related to the implementation of land territory canals (for air units only) and restrictions on units ability to travel the connections.

Also the issue where AI does not build factory units. There was a short period during development where AI did build factories a lot, after I made all territories 1-3 PUs territories. The AI began to place factories in 2 and 3 PU territories. But I guess that there has been an AI update some time ago that changed this behavior. Can you see in the save I sent you why there is no factory building?

I sent you a new save and version of the map if you would like to look at this again.

Example of the stacking issue can be seen here, as Trolls keep stacking units in their capital even though they are in no way in any danger of being attacked:

Greg Anderson

@Frostion Your map is looking very good. I'm eager to try it.

Once it is released, I'll probably try controlling all 8 factions before trying the AI. I tried playing all factions in Dragon War and it was fun to see which faction had the best positioning.

Frostion

Obviously this map and the BETA is delayed a bit. As there are some issues that need to be resolved before it is really playable in a joyful way, with no map break downs and critical errors, I am holding the BETA back a while. Even when I test-play, the map break down often, and it is kind of demotivating after playing many turns and investing a long time in a play-through. So I do not wish this to be experienced by BETA testers and ruin their first impressions.

But I have used the time constructively! I initially planed to release BETA in a step by step manner, where not all races were ready for play. But with the delay, I am spending time making all 8 races playable. Note that they share the same basic units, but have 4 unique racial units and very different heroes. These units take time to create.

Heroes start out as Level 1, but may gather XP and unlock additional levels, all the way up to level 8. Every level unlocks new unique abilities, making the Heroes stronger. Abilities include resource generation, spells, stat upgrades, support abilities, mounts, pets and even shapeshifting (if you are Gart the Druid).

Right now, 4 races and Heroes are playable. Here are screenshots of their introduction-notifications to the players controlling them:

(Please shout out if you see any grammatical errors or misspellings!)

(Please shout out if you see any grammatical errors or misspellings!)

(Please shout out if you see any grammatical errors or misspellings!)

(Besides “One if these Heroes…” , please shout out if you see any grammatical errors or misspellings!)

As a way for players to “customize” their hero, Hero Origin Skills / backstories are chosen for each hero during the game startup. These passive skills give the hero minor advantages during play. They are of course supplemented by stronger level skills and picked up items during play through:

Note: Cavalry units have cavalry-charge like AA abilities. The Lancer Origin Skill gives the Hero the ability to enhance 5 cavalry units’ charge strike.

Note: The two boxes on either side of the Origin Skills are used for Mounts and picked up Ranged Weapons (AA abilities).

That’s all for this sneak peak! Stay tuned for new updates! And let’s give a motivating hand to all the devs of TripleA. Keep the engine improvements coming!

Cernel

@Frostion Editing the OP and title with the new one, since I understand you changed the game's title?

Frostion

Here is another progress update. The fifth of the eight playable races is done. Let me present the Gnomes, their hero Marryk and their arsenal:

Besides several different spells, Marryk can also create a pet Battle-Chicken that can wreak havoc among enemy troops:

Concerning AI and engine errors:
Problem number 1, I am still holding back beta as long as the AI has problems with stacking units at capitals / territories that has connections effected by land territory-canals with unit restrictions. (Also a problem when AI plays Dragon War map)

Problem number 2, the AI does not build factories, even though there are plenty of 2 and 3 PU territories. At some point during game development the AI did build factories, but no longer. I suspect the change came with a new version of prerelease. Don’t know if it is because of an AI change or because factories (now) cost too much, cost non-PU resources or what?
(In relation to this, maybe … I just played an 8 round game of Iron War. During this game the AI did also not buy any factories even though this is something the AI always did some time ago. The issue is map-breaking, since many nations end up with more PU/potential units than they can place with their starting factories. Also factories may be bombed/destroyed, but if AI dont build new ones ... .... Here is the save for v0.2.9 Iron War and TripleA 2.0.18935 2020-5-1-Iron-War.tsvg )

Problem number 3, the engine making errors whenever a player captures an enemy territory and in the process all killed enemy units turn into loot (when killed turns into)… the engine still looks to see if the capturing nation has images of the original enemy units (before they turns into loot / another passive and capturable unit type when killed). This problem can be bypassed by having every player nation have every single enemy unit image in its units own un it directory, even though they may never build those enemy type units. But the workaround would pointlessly increase the map zip size, so I don’t like the idea.

Cernel

@Frostion said in Warcraft: War Heroes - Official Thread:

This problem can be bypassed by having every player nation have every single enemy unit image in its units own un it directory, even though they may never build those enemy type units.

Or by having a single instance of those pictures in the units main folder, that will be used by any players lacking the same.

But I agree that it would be preferable, and make more sense, not to display an image a player can never have (as it gets turned into something else immediately as conquered). I guess you'll make a ticket about this in GitHub. While waiting for this fix, you can also use the hack of having fully transparent images.

Greg Anderson

@Frostion Wow, your map is really looking good. I was wondering when all eight factions will be finished?

I would also like to know when the map will be released for beta testing? I don't mind the AI not working as I wasn't planning on using it, and instead just control all units at first.

redrum

@Frostion I took a quick look at issue #1. The issue is all the air only canals which aren't being properly handled by the AI's territory value calculations when determining where to non-combat move. For example, it thinks the Orc land units can potentially move across the 2 air only connections the next turn (not checking those canals) so values staying in the Orc capital more than moving to the adjacent territories north/south. This just keeps happening turn after turn causing all the Orc units built there to not move. I'll try to take a look at adding some basic logic in to check these canals.

This could be potentially impacting building factories as well since its overvaluing placing units in the Orc capital for example since it thinks there are 2 good adjacent territories to attack from there.

Frostion

@Greg-Anderson ... As soon as possible I will keep you updated here on the progress. When the factions are done, I see no reason to hold it back. The map may be a bit rough around the edges, but hopefully beta testing and feedback can help smooth the map.

@redrum This is great news. I hope it is not a too complicated thing to adjust the AI to comprehend. But I guess that in theory, other maps might also use a land canal or two. Maybe @Cernel already has it implemented in his own project?

Frostion

So the 6th of the 8 races are done …

Here is the Night Elves and their heroine Ayanna

Note: The Ceremonial-Fire is a unit that after placed (at the end of the player round) generates 3 Wisp units, and the fire gives support to elven units for an entire round, until the night elves next turn, when the fire is removed from map. But the 3 Wisps remain.

The Ceremonial-Fire is the only unit of Elves that costs oil.

It took me some time to figure out what elves could possibly use collected oil for. They don’t strike me as the types who would burn black smoking sticky polluting oil for anything. They strike me more as tree hugging vegetarians

Cernel

@Frostion Is the fort an upgrade of guard-tower? If so, it would feel strange to go from stone to wood. Also it looks strange that the garrison is a wooden construct recoulized stone-like. How about omitting the garrison and reclassifying the remaing three as Fort->Tower->Castle (the Tower would be the current Guard-Tower).

I suppose having 5 (!) different siege engines may make for an interest sieging system.

Frostion

PS: I forgot to mention that Ayanna the Hunter of course has a pet hunting dog

@Cernel Yes there is a starting factory, the Guard Tower, and then the other buildings are upgrades. And yes it is a bit strange to have a stone construction be upgraded to a wooden construction. When I started making the unit graphics, it was the intention that the Guard Tower was to be an un-upgradable supporting building, separate from a three-step factory concept (Fort -> Garrison -> Castle).

But as development of the map progressed, I moved away from the two-types of building approach. Now it is a much simpler four-step factory concept, with the four factories having Wall Archers (AA fire) comparable to their size.

The Wall Archers (AA fire) are so effective/unit killing that they are the reason for players to either bring along siege weapons to suppress the Wall Archers, or alternatively bombard and destroy (some buildings only disable) the Wall Archers … so that the territory can be seized without many casualties.

Maybe the concept will change if we find a better and more fitting concept in regards to siege warefare.

Frostion

Yet another race is done. The horrific Undead, also known as the Forsaken:

Sevis the Warlock of course has the pleasure of commanding his very own summoned Imps:

And when Sevis has reached a certain level, he may also command a powerful Doomguard! :

(These summoned units cannot, like the pet Battle Chicken and the pet Mastiff, venture off on their own. They are bound to follow their master. Though they can attack neighboring territories without their master's participation.)

Greg Anderson

@Frostion Good job! I've never been so eager to play a tripleA map as I am with this one.

Michael Hoover

@Frostion Just read through this whole thread and holy crap this is a magnum opus!
I really like the whole backpack/inventory idea and would love a little insider scoop on how you are pulling that off :astonished_face:

Just wanted to point out on the Arthur page shouldn't the skill be spelled "Noble" instead of "Nobel"? (unless I am misunderstanding the skill...)

Frostion

@Michael-Hoover Yes, it should be "Noble" instead of "Nobel". I will fix this ASAP.

I just need to finish the last race, the trolls, then I will upload it for testing in the "experimental" category. It is quite playable now, but has a few issues (both AI and engine) that I hope will be clear for players and developers to see, so that we may work them out.

There are errors poping up now and then, but they mostly do not crash the game.

The item system is quite complex, but all comes down to conditions and triggers. 1: a player captures and therefore own a special item on the map. 2: Trigger removes this item from the map and places the item (another unit type, but still the item) in the backpack, mostly for visual sake + activates the items property, if needed.

The most simple items just generates resources. Some items unlocks unit support. Some items modify the Hero unit attributes by adding/modify stuff, like isMarine if the "Leatherneck" is picked up. Some items are very complex, and I think the most complex is the "Fishing Pole".

So stay tuned and keep am eye out for misspellings

Greg Anderson

@Frostion A complex fishing pole? :grinning_squinting_face:

I'm eager to see what the units of the last race will look like. I've seen many troll units before so I am eager to see what you will create.

I'll let you know if I spot any errors once you release the map. :thumbs_up:

Greg Anderson

@Frostion I was just wondering, is there a reason why some units have a plural name even though they are a single unit? For example, shouldn't the Footmen unit be spelled Footman?

It doesn't change much, but I just wanted to point out a potential typo. :smiling_face:

prastle

@Greg-Anderson It is a common typo in TripleA that is not really a "Typo." A unit is meant to represent a squadron or division generally thus comprising a few unite not a single unit.