Domination 1914 No Man's Land - Official Thread

Schulz

Its great to see an update for this map. But with even extra sub it is still not guarantee to secure the German navy in the first round. If Germany loss 1 crusier in sz 16 -which is possible in both ll and dice- Britain can take on all Germa fleet in the first round.

Also wouldn't it be better putting new flags like these ones?

redrum

@Schulz An extra german sub seems to be the most common "bid" or adjustment. I think that is the bare minimum that needs added and I'm open to further balance discussions but wanted to focus on mostly fixes first.

We can use new flags but I would need 3 sizes of any new flag (12x12, 50x50, 75x75). In particular, I think Arabia and USA are probably the worst ones right now.

Schulz

The sub is used for secure German navy but there is still a chance for the British to take on the German navy and its very decisive. For preventing it One British fighter must start in Ireland instead of London.

The flags do exist in here: https://axisandallies.fandom.com/wiki/Domination_1914_NML_Navalland

redrum

@Schulz Ok, I'll take a look at that. Was that a slightly modded version of NML? Guessing it never really took off as I haven't seen it being played.

Schulz

Yes I had just wanted to make it playable without any farming restrictions. But still I believe the colour of Russia from Great war would be better than white.

redrum

v1.1 is now released and can be downloaded. Feedback is welcome.

Changes

Connections:
- Add connection sz9 to Pskov
- Remove connection sz151 to Sakhe
- Add connection Alberta to British Columbia
- Add connections for Manitoba to Nunavut, Missouri, and sz1
- Add all connections for Portugese East Africa
- Add all connections for British Guiana
- Add all connections for Dutch New Guinea and set production to 1
- Add all connections for Portugese Guinea and set production to 1
- Add all connections for Dutch Guiana and set production to 1
- Add all connections for British Honduras and set ownership to Britain
Techs:
- Fix Propaganda so 3 infantry aren't still producing after capital falls
- Change merchant marine tech movement increase to 3 instead of 4 and impact battle cruisers instead of transports
- Change Industry to give +2 instead of +3 placement bonus
Starting units:
- Add German sub to sz12
Display:
- Updated and fixed many unit images
- Updated flag images and improved capital flag location
- Adjusted some nation colors
- Added map screenshot to notes

Cernel

@Schulz The flag for Arabia is wrong. Beside the red triangle on the hoist side, from top down, it should be black, green, white, not the current black, white, green.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Arab_Revolt

Schulz

Well it looks great.

Like German sub bid. Banning Japan is the another thing that everyone is agree. They also always limit gases though I am the only one that never favour of limiting gases.

Also what about adding sz7-sz8 connection. It does exist in Great war map.

Also sz21-sz29connection doesn't really makes sence.

redrum

@Schulz Thanks. I'm open to additional changes and did consider the sz7-sz8 and sz21-sz29 connections but there didn't seem to be as strong a consensus on those. I think adjusting some of the neutral placements like Japan to be a bit stronger and some others a bit weaker would probably be good but hard to determine.

Schulz

Also Entente nations can pass Black sea from the Mediterranean (or vice versa) without having Constantinople. It is definitely bug. It should require having both Dardanelles and Constantinople.

redrum

@Schulz Probably a good point. I hadn't realized that. Though if Constantinople falls, 99% of the time the game is over so probably not a huge deal. I added the following as proposed changes that I'd like to get more feedback from experienced NML players on:

Proposed Changes (Open to Discussion)

Add connection sz7 to sz8
Remove connection sz21 to sz29
Decrease territory value or increase neutral units in Japan
Black Sea to Med canal should also require Constantinople not just Dardanelles

Schulz

Also I would offer making more tech categories since they play vital part of game, some techs are much more important in initial rounds than other nations. Having incidentally good/bad techs makes huge impact for example;

As Serbia you can gain either propaganda or industry tech and one of them is close to be worhless while the other one (propaganda) is the best tech.

Another example, Late fighter is must for Germany if Centrals want to protect the German Navy. I mea overall achieving wanted techs should be less dicey. I propose 5 categories instead of 3.

Offense

-Mustard Gas
-Creeping Barage
-Mobile Warfare

Defense

-Railway Guns
-Bunkers
-Propaganda

Innovation

-Late Fighter
-Armour
-Industry

Economy

-Victory Bonds
-Workin Women
-Science

Naval

-Sub Warfare
-Convoys
-Dockyard
-Fleet Action
-Merchant Marine
-Aircraft Carrier

Schulz

Also I have doubts about Constantinople-SZ 68 connection. Removing this connection would weakened Turkey, I would favour not removing it though.

redrum

@Schulz Open to reworking the tech categories but that would be a pretty major change so would want others to weigh in.

I think we need to keep the Constantinople-SZ 68 connection.

Schulz

Agree better to keep Constantinople-SZ 68 connection.

Also they approved new tech categories and I think decreasing territory values or increasing neutral units in Japan are equally good idead.

KurtGodel7

@Schulz said in Domination 1914 No Man's Land - Official Thread:

Also I would offer making more tech categories since they play vital part of game, some techs are much more important in initial rounds than other nations. Having incidentally good/bad techs makes huge impact for example;

I like your idea. And I think it could be even better in a modified version.

Each tech category would have a level 1 and level 2. You cannot research level 2 techs in any given category until you've researched all level 1 techs in that category.

Industry level 1
Science
Victory bonds
Working women

Industry level 2
Industry
Propaganda
Late fighter

Land level 1
Mobile warfare
Mustard gass
Bunkers

Land level 2
Creeping barrage
Rail guns
Tanks

Naval level 1
Merchant marine (destroyers, cruisers, and battle cruisers move 3)
Convoys
Fleet action

Naval level 2
Dockyards
Sub warfare
Aircraft carrier

redrum

@KurtGodel7 Interesting idea. Though I think it would probably make level 2 techs appear in much fewer games as you'll probably only see them in games lasting over 10 rounds. I think that's probably a bit too extreme.

redrum

v1.2 is released

Add aaGun image for Arabia to avoid errors when capturing one
Add connection sz7 to sz8
Black Sea to Med canal should also require Constantinople not just Dardanelles
Update Propaganda tech to give Germany Stormtroopers instead of infantry
Decreased Hokkaido and Tohoku production from 6 to 4

KurtGodel7

@redrum said in Domination 1914 No Man's Land - Official Thread:

@KurtGodel7 Interesting idea. Though I think it would probably make level 2 techs appear in much fewer games as you'll probably only see them in games lasting over 10 rounds. I think that's probably a bit too extreme.

TheKhan_Entente.tsvg
TheKhan_Entente2.tsvg

I have attached two saved games. In the first of which the game ended in round 46. The second of which merely lasted until round 42. These are extreme examples I'll admit. But, the vast majority of games I play on this map last at minimum until round 20, and it's perfectly normal for a game to last until about round 30.

With the rules modification I proposed, a player would be allowed to research level 2 industrial techs once he'd researched all level 1 industrial techs. The same applies to land and naval techs. This means that it's possible for players to start acquiring level 2 techs as early as round 4. By round 10 the major powers should have all level 1 and level 2 industrial techs researched, and they should have a few level 1 land or naval techs.

The goal of my tech system is to prevent ultra-good tech rolls from having an overpowered effect on the game. If (for example) Germany gets industry tech on round 1, it could potentially put Paris in danger. You don't want the fate of a major capital to ride on the luck of a tech roll, which is why I made industry a level 2 tech. I also made propaganda a level 2 tech, because Serbia getting propaganda tech on round 1 makes it too difficult for the Centrals to capture it. Creeping barrage makes a land offensive much more threatening and powerful. If I'm Austria, I want creeping barrage more than I want all other land techs combined. I made creeping barrage a level 2 tech, because it's not good for a key Russian or Italian territory to fall too early, based on a lucky Austrian tech roll. Conversely, the defender getting a very good tech roll (rail guns) can delay conquest by a number of turns. That's why I made rail guns a level 2 tech as well.

Schulz

Kurt I've looked the load games and Entente player had made serious mistakes in initial rounds like not rolling in Northern Mexico with USA cavalries in round 1, USA atlantic navy, Buying England Factory instead of 5 sub/fighter in London, allowing Germany to stay in English Channel, Buying Volgograd factory too early instead of trying to recapture Warsaw, not trying to capture Switzerland in initial rounds with Italian cavalries, not staying in Milan. Had Entente done somethings differently game wouldn't last longer than 15 rounds.

Any game can last even more with such a defensive playstyle. But the most critic rounds are indeed the initial round between 1 and 5.

With your tech system, Germany will never have Late fighter in initial rounds and immiadetaly lost its navy and with Scandinavian incomes Entente will start heavily outproduce Centrals.

Lack of Creeping Barrage/armour/industry in initial rounds is huge punishment for Centrals. It will significantly weakened Centrals. There is no reason for Entente to fear offensive techs/units of Central powers. Centrals have absolutely zero chance to take Paris even with early industry tech which is nerfed.

No industry and no late fighter for Germany means having almost zero chance to take Marseille,Piedmont, Losing Scnadinavia and delaying Austria pushing Russia, Italy. And finally guaranteeing to keep Northern Italy/Southern France with USA reinforcements via Morocco,Spain.