buying after moving
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i would like this option available for all maps as i think less mistakes and thus less time is used during purchase phase when it is after pre-combat moves.
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I even think all maps should be fixed the way that to make movement always first phase. I can't think any advantage of having purchase before movement phase.
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@schulz well, at least give the option, some people are set in their ways and dont like move-buy-attack-move, but all maps should have it in the game options, imo.
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@silverbullet yea idk if you can make it as an option. I think it'd need an entire new xml with the steps reversed. I'm not completely sure about that though.
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Two implications to it:
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move-buy-attack encourages unnecessary combat moves. Making unnecessary combat moves is always sub-optimal as it reduces your flexibility, even in LL a person can get diced and it turns out some unit now needs to be elsewhere.
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Second, when capturing capitals, move-buy requires players to realize they need to keep one combat unit in the capital to avoid the capturing player from getting income immediately. In a map like WaW this is a critical mistake if the allies make it.
I think (1) is solved by move planning, allowing a player to plan and effectively update the map as-if they had moved. I think (2) is solved by changing the game engine to mark territories as in combat and stop immediate capture of territories. In this way a PU hand-over would always happen in combat.
If we had (1), then arguably the ordering update would not matter as much.
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A third one:
In case you intend to land your fighters on a newly built carrier, the engine would not allow a combat move (no other landing spot available) because at the time of moving (before purchase of the carrier) the engine cannot "know" that there will be a carrier available.
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My favorite one is: Combat-NonCombat-Purchase-Place. Combats create good sequential synergy plus they allow players to optimize their purchases depends on the results.
I even think there could be option to remove NonCombat phase and allowing air units to land after attacking in combat phase. Then it would be just Move-Purchase-Place.
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@schulz said in buying after moving:
My favorite one is: Combat-NonCombat-Purchase-Place. Combats create good sequential synergy plus they allow players to optimize their purchases depends on the results.
Agreed, this this good for speed of play, good for the AI and good for the player.
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@schulz said in buying after moving:
I even think all maps should be fixed the way that to make movement always first phase. I can't think any advantage of having purchase before movement phase.
Just because you like it doesn't mean everyone does. You want a map with combat move first ? Then mod one. I know you know how to do it.
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@silverbullet said in buying after moving:
i would like this option available for all maps as i think less mistakes and thus less time is used during purchase phase when it is after pre-combat moves.
Sadly, One Does Not Simply Buy After Moving.
As already partially pointed out, there are some outstanding rules changes which you cause in the moment you switch the Purchase Units and the Combat Movement phases, or however they are called.
- At least by intended v1 rules, the Develop Weapons and Purchase Units phases are actually the same phase, yet you can develop weapons only before you buy any units (so, at all effects, even in v1, it is like they are two separate phases), so, if they are not, you should at least not forget also to move the Develop Weapons phase after the Combat Movement phase. However, doing so is a huge rule change for every game having technology but Revised LHTR (example, you get "Heavy Bombers" and suddenly all your bombers roll 3 dice, yet you know about this only after you have made your moves if you have put the Develop Weapons phase after the Combat Movement phase!). If you are keeping the Develop Weapons phase before the Combat Movement phase and moving the Purchase Units phase after the Combat Movement phase, this doesn't actually cause any rules changes related to developing weapons, yet you are likely making the game harder to play because you separate even more the phases during which you can spend your income (I think it is better thinking about how much to spend on new weapons and on new units at the same time).
- Since TripleA incorrectly always immediately changes ownership of entered undefended enemy territories, you will be able to use any income captured from undefended enemy-owned enemy capitals to purchase units (and develop weapons). Still, even if TripleA would work by intended rules, in this regard, in v1 only you would still be able to use captured income on the same round if you blitz an undefended enemy-owned enemy capital (this practically never happens in all basic games from v2 onwards because every capital happens to have a factory in it since the start of the game and factories can never be destroyed nor blitzed from v2 onwards).
- For the same reasons at the previous point, a player starting its turn without owning any capitals each of which is its capital yet having saved income (which it captured from other players while each of its capitals is enemy-owned) which he would not normally be able to spend on that same turn can use it on the turn to purchase units (and develop weapons) by retaking an own capital during Combat Movement. As said at this previous point, this would apply in v1 in case of blitzing even if the behaviour of the program would be as intended.
- For the same reasons at the previous point, from v3 onwards, you will be able to repair newly conquered factories on the same turn (of course, this is most likely pointless, but it might matter at least in theory if the saved income would risk being captured and if the factory is going to be turned over to an ally).
- Moves validated by Purchase Units choices (which only means landing on new carriers) cannot be made if the Purchase Units phase is after the Combat Movement phase.
- In v1 and v2 (in theory except LHTR, but in practice not, since TripleA fails to support such LHTR differentiation) there are AA fly-over shots resolved by the end of the Combat Movement phase which would allow you to know such losses before making the Purchase Units (and Develop Weapons) phase.
- Rockets attacks are to be resolved during the Combat phase, yet TripleA incorrectly resolves them upon ending the Combat Movement phase, which is per se not a problem as long as the Combat Movement phase is immediately before the Combat phase and such attacks, by intended rules, are to be resolved before any other ones during the Combat phase, but would allow you to know the results of such attacks before making the Purchase Units (and Develop Weapons) phase. Moreover, if you also moved the Develop Weapons phase after Combat Movement and the game is not v2 LHTR, you will fail to be able to make such attacks in the same turn as you develop this weapon (in v1, by intended rules, this even means that you would not be able to move your AA Guns during the Combat Movement phase while you should possibly be able to).
There might be other things I'm missing, but I think this should be all.
As long as "World War II v3 1941" goes, you can already find in download list a game modification made by me, called "WWIIv3 1941 Move-Buy-Move", which allows both moving before purchasing and moving after purchasing (if you want to move only before purchasing, simply always skip the second movement phase) and, I believe, fully details in its notes all outstanding items for which the players must restrict themselves. So there is at least one basic game for which this option is already available, albeit as a map modification (the map being "WW2v3_Variants").
