WW2 Oil and Snow (1st ed.) NEW MAP RELEASE

[ebbe]

@general_zod @LaFayette thanks for all feedback and suggestions once more.... I will surch for a workaround in that direction then... good to realize the about the border of the core code...

[RogerCooper]

@general_zod said in WW2 Oil and Snow (1st ed.) NEW MAP RELEASE:

@ebbe Determining the current AI value assignment mechanism would get there partly. I'm pretty sure they value capitals and victory cities and and production of PU. Once you determine a few of their main priorities you can via a set of chance conditions and triggers add a another element to the AI behavoirs specific to your map.

The AI does not value victory cities, just capitals, production and units.

[ebbe]

@rogercooper @wc_sumpton @General_Zod

okej: it almost became my own Stalingrad but ..it worked out..

as planned: the proposed restictions/ features / behaviour for (Victory) Cities

-It looses its PU,s when completely surrounded
( thanks to land convoy route idea @General_Zod )
-It stops factory/barracks production after one turn if surrounded
( I think it is more realistic: its final resources used for one more production and 2nd turn of siege factory/barracks it turns into temporary disabled)
If only 1 route is open again from besieged city ... so 1 surrounding terr. is liberated than factory may produce again and PU's are restored.

-there appears a siege message everytime city is besieged
during the game and trigger is reset by invert and switch
( thanks wc sumption for teaching me how to )

-When a Siege starts every turn 1 supply is taken.
1 Turn in my game is 2 month.
When there are more than 4 defenders it takes 2 supply.
All cities start with 3 supply standerd. I might differentiate a bit due to economical and logistical circumstances

-One can gather supply by purchase allready when you
feel a siege situation is coming.

-Supply can be transported and airtransported into a besieged town by transport plane.

-If opponents (like say the germans take for example Stalingrad) get be surrounded in a city they have conquered they may also get besieged. Though they may/ do not use the factory in there for production they also may run out of supplies.

When running out of supply all units in a city get a -1 penalty on attack and defense.

OKEJ, HOW MUCH CODE CAN ONE HAVE FOR THIS FEATURE?
it sure is a sh*tload for a relatively small effect.... but I love the bit of realism it brings. Together with limitation on mas producing cheap units nd mass stacking I guess this will stop some high valuabe terr's ,from becoming too much of horrifying surreal stockpiled islands..

I guess/hope checking triggers might not take as much Processor energy as for exampe making strategic calculations for units?**

any: the code:

PLEASE SHOOT AT IT IF YOU THINK I CAN SIMPLIFY OR IMPROVE IT>.. and then I like to move on to multiplying it for the 15! urban terr's ingame and do some prayers the amount of triggers (>600) don't sufficate the game play

the code so far:

<!-- BESIEGE AND SUPPLY SYSTEM FOR A SINGLE  TOWN -->
<!--  with thanks to WC SUMPTION for the invert and switch  examples-->

<!-- Checking to see if Russians still own Stalingrad -->
<!--<attachment name="CA_StalingradOwnedByAllies" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player"><option name="directOwnershipTerritories" value="Stalingrad"/></attachment>-->
<attachment name="CA_StalingradNotBesiegedByAxis" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player"><option name="alliedOwnershipTerritories" value="Rostov:Volgograd:West Kazakhstan" count="1"/><!-- Only need 1 of 3, so count can be left off or set to 1 --></attachment>
<attachment name="CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxis" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player"><!-- The invert/opposite of 'CA_StalingradNotBesiegedByAxis' will tell if Russians or their allies do not control those surrounding territories -->
  <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradNotBesiegedByAxis"/>
  <option name="alliedOwnershipTerritories" value="Rostov:Volgograd:West Kazakhstan" count="0"/> <!-- added myself-->
  <option name="invert" value="true"/>   <!-- Will always be the opposite -->
</attachment>
<!-- State of factory check -->
<attachment name="CA_StalingradFactoryPresence" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player"><option name="directPresenceTerritories" value="Stalingrad" count="1"/><option name="unitPresence" value="factory" count="1"/></attachment>
<attachment name="CA_StalingradDisabledFactoryPresence" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player"><option name="directPresenceTerritories" value="Stalingrad" count="1"/><option name="unitPresence" value="factory_disabled" count="1"/></attachment>
    <!-- Still supplied or out of supply check -->
<attachment name="CA_StalingradSuppliesCheck" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
<option name="Players" value="$AllAllies$"/>
<option name="directExclusionTerritories" value="Stalingrad" count="1"/><option name="unitPresence" value="supply" count="0"/><option name="unitPresence" value="out_of_supply" count="0"/>
</attachment>
    <!-- More than 4 defenders than double supply needed -->
<attachment name="CA_StalingradMoreThan4Defenders" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
<option name="Players" value="$AllAllies$"/>
<option name="directPresenceTerritories" value="Stalingrad" count="1"/><option name="unitPresence" value="$AllUnits$" count="5"/><option name="unitPresence" value="out_of_supply" count="0"/>
</attachment>
<!-- switch factory Stalingrad to disabled when surrounded after Russians place-->
<attachment name="TA_StalingradBesieged" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradOwnedByAllies:CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxis:CA_StalingradFactoryPresence"/>
    <option name="removeUnits" value="Stalingrad:factory" count="1"/><option name="placement" value="Stalingrad:factory_disabled" count="1"/>
    <option name="notification" value="StalingradBesieged"/>
    <option name="when" value="after:russiansPlace"/>
</attachment>
<!-- restore factory when at least 1 surrounding terr. is allied owned-->
<attachment name="TA_StalingradNotBesieged" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradOwnedByAllies:CA_StalingradNotBesiegedByAxis:CA_StalingradDisabledFactoryPresence"/>
    <option name="removeUnits" value="Stalingrad:out_of_supply" count="1"/><option name="removeUnits" value="Stalingrad:factory_disabled" count="1"/><option name="placement" value="Stalingrad:factory" count="1"/>
    <option name="when" value="after:russiansPlace"/>
</attachment>
<!-- Remove 1 supply per turn if besieged-->
<attachment name="TA_StalingradBesiegedUseSupply" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradOwnedByAllies:CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxis"/>
    <option name="removeUnits" value="Stalingrad:supply" count="1"/>
    <option name="uses" value="999"/><!-- how to make this infinite? -->
    <option name="when" value="before:russiansPlace"/>
</attachment>
<!-- Remove 1 extra supply per turn if more than 4 units besieged --> 
<attachment name="TA_StalingradBesiegedExtraUseSupply" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradOwnedByAllies:CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxis:CA_StalingradMoreThan4Defenders"/>
    <option name="removeUnits" value="Stalingrad:supply" count="1"/>
    <option name="uses" value="999"/><!-- how to make this infinite? -->
    <option name="when" value="before:russiansPlace"/>
</attachment>
<!--   a -1 penalty on fighting ability defenders in besieged town when out of supply -->
<attachment name="TA_StalingradPlaceOutOfSupplies" attachTo="Russians" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradOwnedByAllies:CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxis:CA_StalingradSuppliesCheck"/>
   <option name="placement" value="Stalingrad:out_of_supply" count="1"/>
    <option name="when" value="after:russiansPurchase"/>
</attachment>

<!-- IF AXIS HOLD   SUPPLY CONSEQUENCE ONLY -->
<!-- Checking to see if Axis  own Stalingrad -->
<attachment name="CA_StalingradOwnedByAxis" attachTo="Germans" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player"><option name="Players" value="$AllAxis$"/><option name="directOwnershipTerritories" value="Stalingrad"/></attachment>
<attachment name="CA_StalingradNotBesiegedByAllies" attachTo="Germans" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player"><option name="alliedOwnershipTerritories" value="Rostov:Volgograd:West Kazakhstan" count="1"/><!-- Only need 1 of 3, so count can be left off or set to 1 --></attachment>
<attachment name="CA_StalingradBesiegedByAllies" attachTo="Germans" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player"><!-- The invert/opposite of 'CA_StalingradNotBesiegedByAxis' will tell if Germans or their allies do not control those surrounding territories -->
  <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradNotBesiegedByAllies"/>
  <option name="alliedOwnershipTerritories" value="Rostov:Volgograd:West Kazakhstan" count="0"/> <!-- added myself-->
  <option name="invert" value="true"/>   <!-- Will always be the opposite -->
</attachment>
<!-- Still supplied or out of supply check -->
<attachment name="CA_StalingradSuppliesCheck" attachTo="Germans" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
<option name="Players" value="$AllAxis$"/>
<option name="directExclusionTerritories" value="Stalingrad" count="1"/><option name="unitPresence" value="supply" count="0"/><option name="unitPresence" value="out_of_supply" count="0"/>
</attachment>

<attachment name="CA_StalingradMoreThan4Defenders" attachTo="Germans" javaClass="RulesAttachment" type="player">
<option name="Players" value="$AllAxis$"/>
<option name="directPresenceTerritories" value="Stalingrad" count="1"/><option name="unitPresence" value="$AllUnits$" count="5"/><option name="unitPresence" value="out_of_supply" count="0"/>
</attachment>
<!-- Remove 1 supply per turn if isolated-->
<attachment name="TA_StalingradBesiegedUseSupply" attachTo="Germans" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradOwnedByAxis:CA_StalingradBesiegedByAllies"/>
    <option name="removeUnits" value="Stalingrad:supply" count="1"/>
    <option name="uses" value="999"/><!-- how to make this infinite? -->
    <option name="when" value="before:germansPlace"/>
</attachment>
<!-- Remove 1 extra supply per turn if more than 4 units besieged --> 
<attachment name="TA_StalingradBesiegedExtraUseSupply" attachTo="Germans" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradOwnedByAxis:CA_StalingradBesiegedByAllies:CA_StalingradMoreThan4Defenders"/>
    <option name="removeUnits" value="Stalingrad:supply" count="1"/>
    <option name="uses" value="999"/><!-- how to make this infinite? -->
    <option name="when" value="before:germansPlace"/>
</attachment>
<!--   minus 1 penalty on fighting ability defenders in besieged town when out of supply -->
<attachment name="TA_StalingradPlaceOutOfSupplies" attachTo="Germans" javaClass="TriggerAttachment" type="player">
    <option name="conditions" value="CA_StalingradOwnedByAllies:CA_StalingradBesiegedByAxis:CA_StalingradSuppliesCheck"/>
   <option name="placement" value="Stalingrad:out_of_supply" count="1"/>
    <option name="when" value="after:germansPurchase"/>
</attachment>

and thanks to General_Zodd for City land Convoy route solution for limiting city Pu when surrounded/besieged:

<attachment name="territoryAttachment" attachTo="Chongqing" javaClass="TerritoryAttachment" type="territory">
      <option name="territoryEffect" value="Urban"/>
      <option name="production" value="1"/><option name="capital" value="Chinese"/>
      <option name="convoyRoute" value="true"/>
      <option name="convoyAttached" value="Gansu:Guizhou:Sichuan"/>
</attachment>

Moving on: still on the list:
-Some AI player only triggers and bonus placement
-some more sound effects
-No air landing zones
-and Fog of War... ( yes yes , I know a fata morgana I suppose )\

Amen enjoy the weekend

[wc_sumpton]

@ebbe said in WW2 Oil and Snow (1st ed.) NEW MAP RELEASE:

-Some AI player only triggers and bonus placement

There are some workarounds. The AI does not answer Player Action questions, etc... (There is a isAI method as part of the GamePlayer Class, but it is not used for testing conditions.)

@ebbe said in WW2 Oil and Snow (1st ed.) NEW MAP RELEASE:

-No air landing zones

Besides the Snow effect way, I don't see this happening soon. Sorry :sad_but_relieved_face:

Cheers...

[ebbe]

@wc_sumpton @General_Zod for some AI influence?... I got tipped by General_Zod about the Feudal Japan-map that might have a way to have little control.. but still haven't got time to understand "the trick" :

    <attachment name="conditionAttachmentMoriHumanCheck" attachTo="GameSetup" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.RulesAttachment" type="player">
      <option name="directPresenceTerritories" value="SZ2" count="1"/>
      <option name="unitPresence" value="HumanMori" count="1"/>
    </attachment>
    
        <attachment name="triggerAttachmentMoriHumanSet1" attachTo="Mori" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.TriggerAttachment" type="player">
      <option name="conditions" value="conditionAttachmentMoriHumanCheck"/>
      <option name="playerAttachmentName" value="RulesAttachment" count="conditionAttachmentMoriHuman"/>
      <option name="playerProperty" value="switch" count="true"/>
      <option name="players" value="Mori"/>
      <option name="uses" value="1"/>
      <option name="when" value="after:gameSetupBidPlace"/>
    </attachment>
    <attachment name="triggerAttachmentMoriHumanSet2" attachTo="Mori" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attachments.TriggerAttachment" type="player">
      <option name="conditions" value="conditionAttachmentMoriHumanCheck"/>
      <option name="playerAttachmentName" value="RulesAttachment" count="conditionAttachmentMoriNonHuman"/>
      <option name="playerProperty" value="switch" count="false"/>
      <option name="players" value="Mori"/>
      <option name="uses" value="1"/>
      <option name="when" value="after:gameSetupBidPlace"/>
    </attachment>

[ebbe]

@TheDog @TorpedoA

talking about avoiding mass stacks... a subject I am interested in...
(see my previous posts of other attempts on my quest to counter this feature )

anyway: you both are delighted by fixing this issue with
UPKEEP/MAINTENANCE... I am interested in that solution:

Just few questions:
-Does A.I. handle upkeep well?
-What happens when a unit runs out of upkeep?
( is it like out of fuel : no movement ? As I like to combine it with fuel usage))
-Do you know an example Map here on TripA where it is used
so I can see how it works out?

and what is the actual difference between
<option name="upkeepCost" value="1"/> or
<option name="upkeepCost" value="flat" count="1"/>

thanks !

I

[TheDog]

@ebbe
There are a few ways to enable "Upkeep"

• upkeepCost used in relationshipTypeAttachment
• createsResourcesList used in unitAttachment

I can only advise on the last one.
As its used by each unit, you put this line in say armour
<option name="createsResourcesList" value="-2:PUs"/>
It will deduct 2pu every turn for every unit that is armour.
If you have it positive as opposed to negative it can give PU to your nation for every unit that you have. You could think of this as a form of a manufacturing plant or mining resources.

So in my games I have used 1, 0, -1, -2 and -3 for an aircraft carrier.

See my futurewar game, that is the closest to your WW2 game here.
https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/2779/future-wars-fallen-empire-official-thread

If you dont attack and just defend, you will reach a point where you cannot buy anything using PU, because your income will = your upkeep costs.

The AI does not appear to take createsResourcesList into account, when purchasing units. But it does do the maths every turn, so it sort of handles it.

[beelee]

@ebbe I still cant get your map to play in the lobby. Makes it hard for those that want to try it.
You might want ask a lobby/dev controller how to make it available, so people can actually play it.

You spent a year on it, seems it should be available.

[Schulz]

@beelee Probably because maps are not frequently updated in lobby.

[beelee]

@schulz yea it's just kind of a bummer it's not even an option after him spending all that time. Can't really promote it.

[ebbe]

Oh yes, summer is ending but still working on 3,0...
Yes I planned to start on other project allready but still stuck to a major upgrade.... on the oil and snow map:

as I personally find the concept of urban strongholds interesting I am adding some more essential Key Cities in the map...
to do so I have to upsize the map... takes a while

For now Cities will have supply... once totally surrounded they run slowly out of it , depending on the seize of the army inside.
Once out of supply they get a battle penalty... worked fine.. a lot of code but worth it for me...

As in ww2-history cities often were surrounded, besieged, and proved to be good natural strongholds to hang on to...
leningrad, stalingrad, so on....

Every city has a URBAN terrain feature...I will also divide this into MAJOR URBAN AREA and MINOR... as fighting in MOSCOW should be a bit more tough than f.e. in BATAVIA

Also I am considering giving the cities extra hitpoints in the form of "Buildings" that take in the first hits and then turn into rubble...
besides I have a 6 unit placement spots for each city , instead of 1, before dropping units into the top City boxes...

So for all players and their minors I selected and added essential key cities:
There is never enough space to add all main cities so I had to make choice:

I checked a list of the 100 most populated cities in 1940,
with cities that were key production hubs and cities that became famous for long sieges and battles.... so even some smaller cities got on the map due to this ( like Helsinki f.e.)

anyway: this is the list so far:
66 KEY CITIES -->

GERMANY: (6)
BERLIN-HAMBURG-VIENNA-
KöNIGSBURG ( strategic fortress city)
WARSZAWA-PARIS ( occupied)

GERMAN MINORS:(3)
HELSINKI-BUDAPEST-BUCHAREST

ITALY:(3)
ROME-MILAN-
TRIPOLI ( "colonial capital")

VICHY FRENCH:(2)
MARSEILLE-DAKAR ( key harbours)
(I decided not to add Vichy as city due to size and lack of space)

JAPAN:(7)
TOKYO-NAGASAKI-(key production)
OSAKA ( big town )

occupied from China:
BEJING-SHANGHAI-NANKING

MUKDEN (big city and capital minor Mandsjoekwo puppets state)

CHINA:(2)
CHONGQING (improv. capital)
KUNMING

USSR:
MOSCOW-LENINGRAD-STALINGRAD
MINSK-KIEV
RIGA (occupied)
CHELYABINSK ( future key production center)

UK:(9)
LONDON - LIVERPOOL -GLASGOW
BOMBAY-MOMBASA-(essentiel harbour)
DELHI-CALCUTTA ( population)
HONGKONG-SINGAPORE (harbour-economical)

USA(9)
WASHINGTON-NEW YORK ( other main east coast cities like Boston not possible , would be too many too close )
DETROIT (incl chicago: production)
ST LOUIS (big city in 1940)
NEW ORLEANS
LOS ANGELES
SAN FRANCISCO-SAN DIEGO ( key w-coast harbours)
MANILLA ( colonial capital)

ANZAC:(2)
SYDNEY-MELBOURNE

CANADA:(2)
OTTAWA -VANCOUVER

FRENCH:(1)
BRAZZAVILLE ( main center of Free french )

ALLIED MINORS:
CAPETOWN
CAIRO
BATAVIA (at java..dutch)
RIO DE JANEIRO
MEXICO CITY

AXIS MINORS:
BUENOS AIRES
TEHERAN
BANGKOK

INDEPENDED AT START:
MADRID
LISSABON
ISTANBUL ( prefered over capital ANKARA due to strategic location and size)
STOCKHOLM

europe would look somehow like this then: (with basic graphics for the moment )
any feedback?

[Meow Meow]

Not sure if this is because of the recent reply or not, but I'm unable to play this map mod as the only one in the experimental tab is the 2nd edition but the map refuses to launch because it's missing the 1st edition

[beelee]

@ebbe yea I'm getting a couple errors also

and then the polygon one

did you update your git repo recently with some new stuff ?

Ok it seems the Polygon one is the error. i uninstalled and reinstalled and got 2.0

I can never remember the fix though

[ebbe]

@meow-meow

hej man, thanks for reporting and downloading my project..
yes it is a shame that the bug appears...
there is a workaround: rename the map you downloaded...
both the map name and the notepad file next to it should be named:
.....1st_edition.... instead of: .... 2nd_edition....

tell me if it works otherwise I send you the files simply by We transf.
and I appreciate feedback on the map a lot!

[ebbe]

@beelee hej man , yes I am in deep Github versus Me relationship crisis again: so I must have made a mistake somewhere but can't find the source: I do know now it is a renaming issue:
if the map is downloaded it shows 2nd_edition in the name where it should be : 1st_edition

If I change the downloaded Zipfile 's name by hand .. it works... I wandered through all the files but can't find the source of the misstake... hmmmm... aaaaah!

For my next project I decide to finish all at once , upload and never change again github stays toooooo complex for me , a simple map maker

[beelee]

@ebbe i'll look through your git stuff when I get a chance. Update sounds pretty cool

[Meow Meow]

@ebbe

I tried out your suggestion and have seen to run into an error; I assume the TripleA application wants the 2nd edition as that's the name of the map when it's downloaded through the map downloads.

However I was able to solve this issue by making a copy of the renamed 2nd => 1st edition and renaming the copy back to 2nd edition

[Denalias]

@ebbe

Fantastic map so far, a buddy and I just finished playing a comp stomp as the European Axis and we loved it. The Eastern front feels just right in terms of depth, with Germany getting right to the gates of Moscow before winter, and the logistics system required by only having home factory production is fantastically modeled and rarely seen in other maps.

We just noticed a few issues our first play through that we wanted to point out and you likely already know about, but just wanted to point out:

1. Factories only seem to sometimes shift back to operable when the original owner recaptures. When US landed on France to liberate it, the factory was repaired and returned to France the first time. However, any other time, especially with Germany in Russia, once a factory was captured, it was permanently damaged with no option to repair when the original owner recaptures. We weren't sure if this was a feature or a bug given that it was somewhat inconsistent, but it can help Germany quite a bit if they manage to sack Gorky behind Moscow for one turn to hurt Russian defense production.

2. Winter terrain stuck around after winter. This only seemed to happen in areas previously without terrain, and usually in areas of Russia that were already German occupied when winter hit, like Ukraine.

3. Ships did not automatically finish building consistently. The Japanese Yamato finished building on its own, however, whenever we tried to build ships, they seemed to stay forever in hull form, and not turn into their proper ship.

4. Turkey is not connected to each other, you have to drop down to Syria in order to traverse from East to West turkey.

5. Germany and Italy did not get volunteers when capturing Argentina. We mounted a daring para raid to capture South American oil, however the Argentine didn't bother rising up to greet us despite the volunteer symbol, ha ha.

Again, great map, so many features we always dreamed of having in base game, we look forward to seeing it continue to be developed!

[ebbe]

@denalias Hej there, thanks for you test play and detailed feedback! I appreciate that really and take it into the "to do list" .....

you found some serious bugs that are solvable...
yes the work still continues but at slow speed: as a newborn here gets all time now ... ` there are many more ideas , but the base code and my programming skills are the limit... and time!!

were you able to download the game without problems? as that is my latest serious problem....

thanks .... 3,0 is under way end of the year.... slightly bigger map... more urban areas and features..... all tips and suggestions welcome

[Denalias]

@ebbe

Yeah, we were able to download fine from the application. We did the same fix that you mentioned in a previous post by just renaming the folder from 2nd to 1st edition, and it worked just fine.

One other thing we remembered, Germany's defense order/medal never seemed to be movable, we always had to edit it where it needed to go. Italy's defense medal and offense medal seemed to work just fine, as well as Germany's offense medal, it just seemed to be a problem with Germany's defense (Not all units have enough movement was the error it gave.)

Just out of curiosity, are the medals intended to buff allied units as well? Like could Germany and Italy set a defense order to the same square and double the bonus essentially?