TripleA Design

[ubernaut]

realized we were still missing a button i could not get gemini to put this on its own row but you all get the idea

[beelee]

@xxxeddiexxx

Hi EddieX

This is what's needed on the opening page. Imo

Think that adding one more Category at the top of that list should be "New to Triplea" or "First Time Triplea" something to that affect.

New people should be able to figure out to click on that. Then the old or veteran, who are mostly probably old don't need to jump through any extra hoops.

The new player clicks on new and all the stuff needed to clue them in pops up.

Edit
The color is what makes it. The Lobby can use a color update too

Anyway, ubernaut pretty much got it

[ubernaut]

@beelee

[beelee]

@ubernaut

heh heh I can only upvote 6 times a day so

[ubernaut]

@beelee 🫡

[TheDog]

@xxxeddiexxx
My 2c

Local Play = Local Play (solo vs AI) This should be at the top of the list for new players

Play Online = Play Online via Lobby (Lobby should be mentioned)

Can Live Multiplayer section have a collapse button, this is to reduce clutter I and others will never use this section ?

Can Asynchronous section have a collapse button, this is to reduce clutter I and others will never use this section ?

[Cernel]

@ubernaut said:

realized we were still missing a button i could not get gemini to put this on its own row but you all get the idea

Look, I generally like your proposal, but I just bloody knew that the word "asynchronous" would have come out for PbF and PbE...

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/asynchronous

not happening or done at the same time or speed

Literally, "asynchronous" is just a fancy word that means "not happening at the same time".

Well, TripleA is a turn-based game: nothing is happening at the same time.

Any turn-based game is asynchronous.

TripleA is ALWAYS asynchronous, also when you play it live or against the AI.

Thereby, asynchronous is meaningless as of now as a distinction in TripleA.

The antonym of asynchronous is (of course) synchronous, and a synonym of synchronous is simultaneous.

Asynchronous may become meaningful as a distinctive term in the future if something like games with simultaneous turns are added to TripleA.

Now, you could argue that it is "asynchronous" because (in PbF and PbE) you are not (necessarily) simultaneously online, but that is really stretching the meaning, and anyway "Asynchronous Play" would still make no sense because you are just never playing simultaneously in a turn-based game.

I definitely and strongly recommend changing "Asynchronous Play" to either "Play by Message" or "Play by Correspondence" or "Correspondence Multiplayer" because the term is meaningless as of now and may become confusing in the future if any simultaneus games are then added to TripleA.

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I think that all elements of "Files, Tools & Settings" can be stand-alone.

It would also make sense that the "Map Creator Tools" is not offered by default but only if you enable "Map-Maker Mode" (or something like that) in Engine Preferences. That would cut the bottom selection to only "Download Maps", "Engine Preferences" and "User Guide & Help". (I'm not sure about where the "Load Saved Game" button should be.)

[Cernel]

This is an example of how a partially simultaneous TripleA-like game would work:
https://axisandallies.fandom.com/wiki/Simultaneous_Movement

(I think it would be really cool if this gets supported in TripleA. I rememeber an old topic about it in this forum, but I'm not finding it.)

[xxXEddieXxx]

@ubernaut @Cernel

Thanks for the input! I can understand why people who already know which mode they want to play would prefer to select it straight from the main menu.

I think the categories can be useful, but in my experience new players usually start with “Can I play this on my own?” or “How can I play with my friends?” I’m still thinking about how the main menu could answer those questions while giving regular players quick access to their usual mode.

@ubernaut I could also see the news section showing posts specific to each multiplayer mode. Where would we get those posts from, and how would we pull them in automatically?

Maybe we can take the next step and look at what happens after you click Play locally. Here’s how I think the map and nation selection screen could look.

Proposal
Main screen

Rule screen

Rule sets

Sidepanel with changed rules

Current design

The game remembers the last map you played and the rules you used. If you play the same setup regularly, you can see what’s selected and start your next game. For someone opening this screen for the first time, though, even “Which map am I about to play?” should be easy to answer. The current screen gives you a name like “41 Oztea SBR,” which might mean very little to a new player. In the proposal, you see the map itself, with Change map right underneath it. Load game is a separate button if you want to continue a save.

Now let’s say it’s my first game and I want to play Germany and its allies against the computer. On the current screen, I get a list of nations, every one says “Human,” and I have to work out which entries to change before I click Play. In the proposal, the first thing I see is Who plays? It tells me I can pick a side to play against the computer. I can click Play Axis and then Start Game. Once I know the game better, the same table is there if I want to set up each nation myself.

The rules are another place where I think we can make the first game easier. This map has 35 options. As a new player, how do I know if I need to go through them all before I start? The sidebar tells me I’m using the map’s own rules, so I can pick my side and play. Later, if someone suggests trying Low Luck, I can filter the options to find it. Once I turn it on, it shows up under Changed rules, even after I go back to the Players tab. And if I regularly switch between two sets of rules, I can give each one a name and use it again.

Thank you!

[ubernaut]

@xxXEddieXxx i dont think the side panel needs to change necessarily, just the main panel would change after you click one fo the main options. i believe the user guide and help button is sufficient for new player but it also be separated into its own category like how local play stands alone in that mockup.

i think could possibly extend the color coding thing to the team selection player assignment screen as well to indicate which side any individual faction is on.

regarding how we populate the ness i think those would be messages set by the devs but it was just an idea that might be more generally useful than the recently updated files or forum which may have limited value for some players

[ubernaut]

@xxxeddiexxx the ai went little off the rails on this version and i cant really wrangle it as each time it sort of gets worse but here is a decent representation of what i was talking about with the assignment screen



[Cernel]

Am I the only one who does not like the phrase "Asynchronous Play" to indicate PbFand PbE? (As I said, I think the game-play of a turn-based game is asynchronous by definition.)

[xxXEddieXxx]

@ubernaut
The screen feels a bit overloaded. The main issue is visual hierarchy. After I click Start Local Game, hosting, email play, and map creator tools still get a whole sidebar, while the thing I came to do, pick a side, Map and game options are buried in a table.

If I want to play Axis against the computer, I have to work out how Use, Type, and Set All To relate to that one decision. Play Axis makes it one choice. The table is still there if I want to change who controls Germany or Japan. Maybe look a bit into https://www.uilaws.com/law/hick’s-law
we want to give the user space, so he can orient himself better in this software.

Remember we all know how TripleA behaves and what the buttons do. But the more Info at once a new player gets the more likley he/she is to quit the game before even starting.

Altough i really like the coloring of the Factions! We could use that.
@Cernel
Take chess. In a live match, the players move one at a time, but they’re both present for the same session. In correspondence chess, one player can make a move, leave, and get a reply the next day. The rules and turn order are identical.

Waiting for your turn makes chess turn-based. It’s also synchronous because both players are at the board for the same session. Synchronous doesn’t mean both players move at the same instant.

What makes the second mode asynchronous is that playing together doesn’t require being there together. That fits the quoted definition. The activity happening at different times is each player’s participation in the match.

[ubernaut]

@xxXEddieXxx this examples uses TWW as the example it has a lot of teams this is normal and not a map for beginners

[Cernel]

@xxXEddieXxx said:

Synchronous doesn’t mean both players move at the same instant.

To be clear, I'm not much against the term "asynchronous" itself but actually against the phrase "asynchronous play".

I think the term has been hijacked out of its proper meaning to indicate that kind of play when you are not simultaneously present at the board, but being simultaneously present and playing simultaneously are two different things.

I think that, under the definition of what asynchronous means, every Turn-Based Play, however done, is Asynchronous Play.

[ubernaut]

@Cernel actually i didnt tel it to to do that but i was kind of thinking that is the only thing that would make sense in terms of grouping those 2 very related play modes

live play is not asynchronous in a true sense bc even if you aren't paying attention or playing at all time u are ostensibly observing when you are not playing.

w/e we call them i think there 3 basic umbrella modes of game play

[ubernaut]

@Cernel lol i think we are in basic agreement here

[Cernel]

To be clear, I would say that Chess (as being turn based) is never "synchronous play", no matter if you are simultaneously present. The same for a TripleA game.

If you would say "synchronous Chess", that would make sense to me only if you are playing some sort of Chess variant where both players write their moves in secret and are then revealed and somehow happens at the same time. Of course, that would not be Chess and would need additional rules for when two pieces move to the same square and other things, like eliminating each other or whatever.

Even that, I would rather call it "simultaneous Chess" because "synchronous" is more like when two or more persons intentionally do stuff at the same time (synchronizing themselves).

[Cernel]

@xxXEddieXxx said:

Altough i really like the coloring of the Factions! We could use that.

I'm mixed on that. It is helpful, but I don't really like it much. I would prefer if they are grouped under headers, like having in selection

Axis

Germany
Japan

Allies

Russia
Britain
America

That way, we can have a select all of the alliance on the header instead of the weird practice of clicking on one of the multiple repeated alliances names on the right.