Red Sun Over China (RSOC) - Official Thread
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@redrum said in Red Sun Over China (RSOC) - Official Thread:
I'm almost definitely going to remove isLandTransport from armor in the next version.
I'd wait for the opinion of the actual and possibly veteran players of this map on this, I believe, but I think it makes sense armour being land transports (or at least it would if the starting units would be representative, which means very few armour thus very few infantry that you can transport). Usually armours have an organic of motorized infantry, and you can also pack a dozen men on top of the armour itself; so, in the moment you have different units for artillery and infantry, I think it makes sense to separate the armour from their infantry too.
If armours would be unable to transport, then I believe it would be necessary to represent motorization in other ways.
The Japanese have mobile infantry, but everyone else that got armour lack it, even the British, and anyways I don't really like mobile infantry as a unit, since you are not actually driving your trucks in the battlefield, so it doesn't really make sense that they have to die with the infantry they are motorising.
Personally, I'm far more perplex on the matter why the light artillery is movement 2, and would rather change that to 1, unless somebody can explain me why is that (if it is horse artillery, then ok, but probably should be called that way and be represeted accordingly; motorized artillery doesn't need to be light, so I guess it's not that).
But just giving some off the cuff opinions, as I've still to decide if I really like the game (sorry but it has a bunch of items that are really making me perplex).
Same matter, if armour cannot transport artillery, then you should have a way to motorize your artillery (I don't believe the light artillery is representing that, and, anyways, same matter as with the infantry, I don't see why the motorization must be forcefully part of what it moves, especially in the moment you have a game with railways). -
Alright so found the first bug! So it appears from the notes that:
"Communists produce all their units outside of factories, and may also build on newly captured territory. Communists may produce up to 3 units in each territory. Communist have no capital, the flag in the map is merely decoration."But the Communists can't actually produce units in newly conquered territory and I had to edit to achieve it. I'm guessing this bug has always existed but I'll let some of the veterans chime in.
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@redrum said in Red Sun Over China (RSOC) - Official Thread:
Alright so found the first bug! So it appears from the notes that:
"Communists produce all their units outside of factories, and may also build on newly captured territory. Communists may produce up to 3 units in each territory. Communist have no capital, the flag in the map is merely decoration."But the Communists can't actually produce units in newly conquered territory and I had to edit to achieve it. I'm guessing this bug has always existed but I'll let some of the veterans chime in.
It's been like that since release, always had to edit that.
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The movement through cities is a bit strange in the moment you consider retreating.
If all your units are moving through, you can retreat to the starting territory but not to the city, that really makes no sense.
If all your units are from the city, you can retreat to the city but not to any bordering territories, which doesn't make sense as well, since units moving through the city from more far away would be able to retreat back more, and there is no reason why the ones only coming from the city can't.
Maybe this game would be better with 1 combat round only, not only for solving the above. Practically, the scenario is almost a late WWI army (Japanese) against poor WWI army (Chinese), and it was indeed grindy.
Moreover, if it is true that Japs are OP, 1 combat round may be what's needed to rebalance. -
Alright v3.0.1 uploaded to fix rules attachments:
- Communist production should now allow them to properly place in conquered territories
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@erik542 I’m sure I’ve built in newly captured territories with the Communists in the most recent map (before Redrum’s latest revamp). I just rarely wanted to as that turf is often in the midst of the Japanese. My Communists tended to get pushed back a long way (as that was my opponent’s focus) so in the end I had to capture neutrals just for a place to build.
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@mattbarnes I'd be a bit surprised if that was the case as there was an issue in the XML which I think was always there but ya never know.
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I see that in the folders there are:
ruralproduction.png
ruralproduction_hit.png
I assume that the hit version is useless, correct?Anyways, now that the thing has been implemented properly (rather than with the hack of having the image being blank), I suggest to remove all blank images from the folders.
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@redrum Save game attached based on old game, showing communist builds in captured territory.0_1535705555478_M&M2B.tsvg
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@redrum Take a look at the big skin at the previous link. It is still very pixelated, so not proposing it (but, actually, it is the original relief that are pixelated; just it becomes evident when you enlarge them, as you can see there are borders that are not pixellated); just saying I've redo the 200% enlargement of the relief with a different algorithm that looks a bit better to me (the previous one was too aggressive against the halo).
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The referring ruleset, as well as all rules exceptions to it, should be specified in notes.
For example, users should know if factories block (v2) blitz or don't (v1).
As a matter of historicity, another think I've a huge problem with is that you need to conquer the Burma road. That remembers me of conquering the Panama canal in WAW. I guess the conquest is to represent the efforts to build the road, as it wasn't available already in December 1937, but I would rather just delay its activation of a sensible number of rounds and give correct ownerships (maybe 2).
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@erik542 said in Red Sun Over China - Possible Bugs (RESOLVED):
Well looking at the game notes, the Thai-UK NAP is represented by "3) British are not allowed to fight Axis for the first 3 rounds (Phase I), unless any Axis country attacks it first."
I cannot find this in notes anymore. I believe all stuff like this should be detailed in notes. The objectives don't give the info about when stuff happens. Not sure I'm overlooking something.
Also, realistically, British would never attack Thailand until it declares on Allies and Thailand would not declare on Allies until conquered by Japan.
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Well it probably got removed with the addition of the politics implementation.
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@erik542 Maybe I'm missing something or I'm not sure you noticed that British (still?) goes automatically at war on round 4. I'm not seeing where the user can know that (maybe I'm blind and I'm ovelooking some info).
Also, a line in notes about the fact that Axis can declare war on British.
Personally, even with this very basic representation of British involvement, I think 3 rounds of netrality is way too few. That would represent 1938, 1939, 1940 and 1941, a total of 4 full years (map starts end of 1937 and Pear Harbor is end of 1941) represented by 3 rounds, that would imply 1 round is more than 1 year. Due to the scope of this map, and the unfolding events, 1 round should be 1 to 3 months of real time. Thus the British entry into the war should be delayed until round 17 to 49.
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@cernel Yeah, I'll eventually clean up the image folders just not high priority.
Yeah, the notes could use some more clarifications on some of the rules and politics. Just haven't added that in yet. Mostly just fixed the existing notes and reformatted the content to make it readable.
So I'm open to considering adjusting British involvement but obviously 17 to 49 rounds is just ridiculous... I think a turn represents closer to 6-9 months given I expect the game to last on average around 10 turns and cover 1938-1945.
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@redrum Well, 6 months per round would mean British is at war on round 9. I guess that may be a compromise between playability and realism. The war in China ended up in stalemate for a long time, with the Chinese holding on Hunan, that the Japanese managed to break only in 1944, even to they were trying since 1941 (failing again and again).
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i'm trying to run Red Sun Over China and Warlords FFA on the latest version (from Github) but i get "failed to start game" when i try to start either of them, when i go to details it gives me this:
Sep 05, 2018 2:33:14 PM games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher loadGame
SEVERE: Failed to start game
java.lang.IllegalStateException: Error in resource loading. Unable to load expected resource: polygons.txt, the error is that either we did not find the correct path to load. Check the resource loader to make sure the map zip or dir was added. Failing that, the path in this error message should be available relative to the map folder, or relative to the root of the map zip
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.mapdata.MapData.<init>(MapData.java:150)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.HeadedUiContext.internalSetMapDir(HeadedUiContext.java:79)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.AbstractUiContext.setDefaultMapDir(AbstractUiContext.java:103)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.TripleAFrame.create(TripleAFrame.java:228)
at games.strategy.triplea.TripleA.startGame(TripleA.java:105)
at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher.loadGame(LocalLauncher.java:60)
at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher.launchInNewThread(LocalLauncher.java:39)
at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.AbstractLauncher.lambda$launch$0(AbstractLauncher.java:51)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)Sep 05, 2018 2:33:29 PM games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher loadGame
SEVERE: Failed to start game
java.lang.IllegalStateException: Error in resource loading. Unable to load expected resource: polygons.txt, the error is that either we did not find the correct path to load. Check the resource loader to make sure the map zip or dir was added. Failing that, the path in this error message should be available relative to the map folder, or relative to the root of the map zip
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.mapdata.MapData.<init>(MapData.java:150)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.HeadedUiContext.internalSetMapDir(HeadedUiContext.java:79)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.AbstractUiContext.setDefaultMapDir(AbstractUiContext.java:103)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.TripleAFrame.create(TripleAFrame.java:228)
at games.strategy.triplea.TripleA.startGame(TripleA.java:105)
at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher.loadGame(LocalLauncher.java:60)
at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher.launchInNewThread(LocalLauncher.java:39)
at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.AbstractLauncher.lambda$launch$0(AbstractLauncher.java:51)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)Sep 05, 2018 2:34:05 PM games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher loadGame
SEVERE: Failed to start game
java.lang.IllegalStateException: Error in resource loading. Unable to load expected resource: polygons.txt, the error is that either we did not find the correct path to load. Check the resource loader to make sure the map zip or dir was added. Failing that, the path in this error message should be available relative to the map folder, or relative to the root of the map zip
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.mapdata.MapData.<init>(MapData.java:150)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.HeadedUiContext.internalSetMapDir(HeadedUiContext.java:79)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.AbstractUiContext.setDefaultMapDir(AbstractUiContext.java:103)
at games.strategy.triplea.ui.TripleAFrame.create(TripleAFrame.java:228)
at games.strategy.triplea.TripleA.startGame(TripleA.java:105)
at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher.loadGame(LocalLauncher.java:60)
at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher.launchInNewThread(LocalLauncher.java:39)
at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.AbstractLauncher.lambda$launch$0(AbstractLauncher.java:51)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)Edit: nevermind, just got the wrong version
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Did some work on the units today.
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I like everything except the symbol on the Guerilla because before they just looked like flying men.
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@Hepps Propaganda unit could be inspired by the Command & Conqueror Generals Chinese "propaganda tower"!? I don't know how the specific unit works on the map, but if it is a stationary unit it could be fiting that it was a loudspeaker-tower.
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