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@redrum when i try to doa manual save it locks up in the same manner (before it can save actaully) also cannot load games for revised so there's definitely an issue with open/save logic in the prerelease at least on mac.
"You should never have told me horses sleep standing up, it gave me a mental block." - Mister Ed
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@ubernaut Ok, I opened an issue so we can get someone else with a Mac to try save/loading games with the pre-release: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/5945
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@redrum So I ran into an issue with my Warcraft map and the AI. The map is heavily dependant on the AI to set up the randomized map / seed the map with units, hero items, buildings, resource generating stuff and more (by territory picking, then place units held from start, then again units given after this and finally placing a flag unit in every 400 territories). So when the player starts up a game, the first thing that happens before the human players get to do anything is the before mentioned. It technically works well.
But unless the AI pause duration is set to 0 it is a painfully long process. It takes minutes for the map to place the approximately 1000 units. I have used the AI for a similar technical purpose before, in the Star Trek map. I don't know if any other map uses AI in a similar technical way placing or managing stuff ... and not just use AI to play against.
I really think that the playing experience is much better with the AI pause pause duration set to 400 ms+ (default setting or longer). If playing a map with 0 ms, unit moves and actions are done so fast that one can't follow them and also sounds are often played at once in an irritating manner.
I would really like to have the AI set up the map as fast as possible (0ms) and then afterwards play against the AI with a standard pause duration. Can there be an automated solution?
Could the different step types be made to have AI pause duration attachments? (Like the round count attachment?)
Is there a possibility that something like "console commands" could set AI pause duration? Maybe via XML triggers? Maybe via something like a consolecommands.properties txt file?
Could every AI type have its own settings file, like an HardAI.properties. Where different aspects of AI behaviour is defined, including AI pause duration for different steps.
Some other solution other than players manually setting the AI pause duration back and forth?
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@Frostion Good question. Can you give me a little more detail on how you are doing the initial set up? Is it all done by a single AI player so that if we just allow setting AI pause duration by player would work? Or is it different phases for each player?
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OK then @redrum
Understand that in this map the "minor" AI and "nature" AI players are all passive after the initial territory picking and placements. There are no combat moves, purchases, placements etc. during the game. These players only have pre-game steps. Only the 8 main players are active after the game begins.It starts out like this...
Teritory Picking/Placement: At the moment, there are like 20 AI players (minor primitive passive races) who all can pick 3 territories each (as they hold 3 units) and a huge player called Nature picks the rest, like 340 territories. Nature player places all the map's non-combat stuff units, all capturable without a fight. A player can never do combat vs. Nature player but all the minor player units have defensive stats.Pre-game Placement Round A: The 20 minor AI players get like 2-5 fighting units by trigger to place and fill up their 3 territories with more units.
Pre-game Placement Round B: Finally the 20 minor players and Nature player get 1 Flag for each owned territory to place.
Now the game is on, round 1, and the ordinary player 1 to 8 can do their first things; combat move. It would be nice if AI pause duration could return to normal now.
(Unit specifications prevent more than 1 Flag per territory, so AI is forced to place in all/each territories) (Reason why there are multiple placement rounds are because I only want a minor player to have 3 territories each from start, then fill these with extra units) (I have thought about changing the procedure a bit ... But the concept will pretty much be the same I think)
So as you can see, in this game, in my case, the minors could actually be a dumb version of AI only placing with a 0 ms speed, then waiting to be attacked by a real player. But as some of the main 8 players can also be played as Hard AI, it would be good to have normal functioning AI for this. What do you think?
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@Frostion so what if we allowed setting pause duration per player and set nature to 0. Would that be enough?
TripleA Developer with a Passion for AI: https://forums.triplea-game.org/topic/105/ai-development-discussion-and-feedback
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@redrum This reminds me of that other thing of the Risk stile random placement, that you probably don't want to see if you have an enormous number of territories, but it is nice to see in a map like risk (still much faster than drawing cards).
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@ubernaut Can you test the latest pre-release here and see if that fixes the save game loading issue: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/releases/download/2.0.18171/TripleA_2.0.18171_macos.dmg
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@redrum yeah seems to work now.
i'll check the ai strategies when i have some time. -
@redrum Sorry for the long wait for a reply. An option to set map specific individual player AI pause duration would certainly help, even better if it was changeable during play, but a permanent would also work.
In my case it would perhaps speed up the automated map setup by 50% if player Nature had a permanent 0 ms AI pause duration.
How do you think this can be achieved? XML setting? an first version of a new file called AI.properties?
Yay ... That would be nice and have many potential future applications 
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The AI appears having serious problems in games where nobody has any capitals and there are factories in all territories, stacking and stacking units somewhere, not sending them to the frontline, and generally being very lazy and clueless at pushing. It is also very slow deciding the purchase. I'm testing this on a map modification of 270BC I'm making, and I'll give more details once is out.
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@ubernaut would you mind jumping in on: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/5792? We'd really like to get the problem object text wrapping fixed, but need more information and someone to work with to help us test any fixes. We're curious off the bat which UI Look & Feel you are using and confirmation that you're using Mac OS.
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@LaFayette ok i'll reply there my name there is 'doctored'
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@Cernel said in AI Development Discussion and Feedback:
It is also very slow deciding the purchase. I'm testing this on a map modification of 270BC I'm making, and I'll give more details once is out.
Actually, the slowness appears to be some sort of major regression with the prerelease. Further testing reveal that, letting "Fast AI" play alone, these are the times to make the first 2 rounds (from clicking on "Play" till ending round 2):
1.9.0.0.13066: 7 first and 45 second minutes.
2.0.18267: 19 first and 32 second minutes.
In both cases, I've assigned -Xmx8192M and -Xms8192M, that just means unlimited.
The difference lays on the fact that, while the stable needs only a few seconds there, the prerelease takes an excruciatingly long time each "purchase" phase, to decide what to buy.
On the other hand, the prerelease might be a little lighter on the RAM use, as I see it is at 3.32G at the end of round 2 for 1.9.0.0.13066 and 3.28G at the same point for 2.0.18267.
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@Cernel Ok. I would need to be able to test it myself so either need the map you are using or if you see the behavior on an existing map then I can take a look.
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@Cernel Stray thought, you may want to try -Xmx @ 2G or 3Gs. More memory is not always better. Usually there is not that much that needs to stay in memory, but memory is also not cleaned until it sometimes needs to be. The cost to clean memory when it is full is also non-linear, you could be seeing extremely long pauses while that happens.
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@LaFayette Actually, for 1.9.0.0, RAM usage goes down to 2.34G by the end of round 10. So, it seems the RAM is getting cleaned even if having a much bigger upper limit. Also very strange that it is using about 1G of RAM more at start game than after 10 rounds. Guess we can indagate the matter once I release the map, as this game has a lot of triggers.
Once at that point, and preferably after @redrum fixes the purchase lag, I can also test it at different "xmx" settings, see what's faster.
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As said, in this game (270BC Wars, unreleased) each land territory has a factory in it, while what appears to be the factory is actually an itself useless unit that is required by most units for placement (so, you have some units that you can place anywhere, and some units only in factories, though they are not actually factories).
Tested in call cases with:
-Xmx4096M
-Xms4096M
All to Fast AI And with the "barbarians" player disabled.
AI Pause Duration=250TripleA 18437 (4 days ago):
Time to end the first turn (Carthage): 2' and 2"
Time to end the first 5 rounds: 50' and 10"
RAM level at the end of the first turn (Carthage): 2.08 GB
RAM level at the end of the first 5 rounds: 2.92 GBTripleA 18511 (current):
Time to end the first turn (Carthage): 0' and 38"
Time to end the first 5 rounds: 15' and 46"
RAM level at the end of the first turn (Carthage): 2.06 GB
RAM level at the end of the first 5 rounds: 2.20 GBSo, the Fast AI now plays over 3 times faster, and it seems it also uses 0.72 GB less of RAM, after 5 full rounds.
The gains I believe are all on the purchase phases. For example, in 18437, the purchase phase of the first turn of Carthage lasted a painful 1 first and 19 seconds, while now the AI brezees throug it in 6 seconds: about 13 times faster!
So, am I right assuming that these huge improvements in speed are thanks to this pull:
https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/pull/6086
?If so, great job and thank you @Alexei-Svitkine.
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@Cernel yep, that is correct and glad to see the drastic improvement!
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