Units don't attack together.



  • I've wanted it and rearrangedd the phrases like this in a map:

    <step name="germanCombatMove" delegate="move" player="Germans"/>
    <step name="italianCombatMove" delegate="move" player="Italians"/>
    <step name="japaneseCombatMove" delegate="move" player="Japanese"/>
    <step name="germanPurchase" delegate="purchase" player="Germans"/>
    <step name="italianPurchase" delegate="purchase" player="Italians"/>
    <step name="japanesePurchase" delegate="purchase" player="Japanese"/>
    <step name="germanBattle" delegate="battle" player="Germans"/>
    <step name="italianBattle" delegate="battle" player="Italians"/>
    <step name="japaneseBattle" delegate="battle" player="Japanese"/>
    <step name="GermanNonCombatMove" delegate="move" player="Germans" display="Non Combat Move"/>
    <step name="italianNonCombatMove" delegate="move" player="Italians" display="Non Combat Move"/>
    <step name="japaneseNonCombatMove" delegate="move" player="Japanese" display="Non Combat Move"/>
    <step name="germanPlace" delegate="place" player="Germans"/>
    <step name="italianPlace" delegate="place" player="Italians"/>
    <step name="japanesePlace" delegate="place" player="Japanese"/>
    <step name="germanEndTurn" delegate="endTurn" player="Germans"/>
    <step name="italianEndTurn" delegate="endTurn" player="Italians"/>
    <step name="japaneseEndTurn" delegate="endTurn" player="Japanese"/>

    Units seems attack together on the screen but actually auxiliary forces never attack the enemies. They can be takes as casualty but I want them to attack alongside the main forces.

    How do I solve the problemP I know it can be fixed by making other nations minor of the main axis an allies nation but I can't really implement it either like global or weltpolitik map.


  • Moderators

    @Schulz Actually, the fact that they (the attacking units not belonging to the player of that battle phase) can even be taken as casualties I believe it is a hedge case of Classic, and I'm not sure of how much it is actually supposed to be supported generally. As far as I know, they should not be part of the battle at all from Revised onwards, if you want to check the engine behaviour and if @panther2 wants to confirm this fact (the only actual case in the basic games being allied fighters on carriers).

    I guess that allowing allied units to attack together would be not too hard, since they are already there just rolling no dice, but this would then entail the problem about how to handle retreat for all, and maybe others.



  • It would be no problem for me If I was be able to implement minor-major system like the commonwealth nations of UK from Total World War.

    There may be a property that allows different nations to attack together. Yes these units are in the battle but never roll.


  • Moderators

    @Schulz Are they still present and selectable as casualties if v2 rules are enabled?


  • Moderators Admin

    @Cernel In Classic multinational forces never attack together, as they don't in the later basic games, either. Additionally the Classic FAQ clarifies:

    Q. If my fighters are on an ally’s carrier, when do they move and fight?

    A. Your fighters move along with the carrier when it moves. They can’t fly out to attack on your ally’s
    turn, but they fight normally if the carrier’s sea zone is attacked. If the carrier moves into an enemy
    sea zone to attack, however, your fighters can’t be part of the attack but they can be taken as losses,
    if you agree to sacrifice them.



  • @Cernel I've tried it for v3 map with this property:

    <property name="WW2V3" value="true" editable="false">
    <boolean/>
    </property>

    Once I turned the v3 value off nothing have changed. Auxiliaries are still just selectable casualties.


  • Donators Moderators Admin

    @Schulz The only way to achieve what you want is via the Major--- Minor structure you already mentioned. There is no other way to achieve this under any setup of the properties themselves.



  • How do I do it? I've already tried it by copying exactly same things from Total World War or Weltpolitik map but it didn't work. Probably I miss some properties.


  • Moderators

    @Schulz said in Units don't attack together.:

    @Cernel I've tried it for v3 map with this property:

    <property name="WW2V3" value="true" editable="false">
    <boolean/>
    </property>

    Once I turned the v3 value off nothing have changed. Auxiliaries are still just selectable casualties.

    The WW2V3 property is fake (unless something changed, it actually mostly doesn't change the game to v3 rules).

    I was talking about the WW2V2 one, that you should have true for V3 games, since the V3 one is largely ineffective, and doesn't even change stuff from V1 to V2, like in this case.

    As far as I remember (please the developers correct me if I'm wrong) the WW2V3 property exists only (beside to mislead mapmakers) to set to V3 some minor cases that are not individually handled by specific properties.


  • Moderators

    @Panther So, to be clear, what I was asking to confirm was that in Classic you can take those allied fighters as casualties and in Revised onwards you cannot.

    This, in turn, in TripleA terms, translates into the behaviour that allied units in attacked zones can be selected as casualties, while not being able to attack themselves, but under default (not v2+) rules only (as long as I recall correctly and the engine works accordingly).


  • Moderators Admin

    @Cernel said in Units don't attack together.:

    @Panther So, to be clear, what I was asking to confirm was that in Classic you can take those allied fighters as casualties and in Revised onwards you cannot.

    That's correct. From Revised on fighters on attacking allied carriers are simply cargo.


  • Moderators

    @Cernel Despite my assumption, I actually just tested World War II Classic and there is not this behaviour:

    Units seems attack together on the screen but actually auxiliary forces never attack the enemies. They can be takes as casualty but I want them to attack alongside the main forces.

    @redrum @LaFayette @RoiEX @ssoloff What do the developers think about it. Why is this happening and is it supposed to be supported for some reasons? I assumed this is was due to v1 rules, but the above seems not actually happening there, so I'm reporting it as a bug, but this leaves me wondering where that behaviour comes from, then.



  • How easy to create a property to allow allies units attacking together enemy forces? Wouldn't it simply solve all problems.

    Also allowing allies units to attack together will be great improvement since they can defend together why not attacking together?


  • Moderators

    @Schulz Actually, there is already such a kind of property, and it is called "Allied Air Independent", but it works (or it is supposed to work) only in case of air on carriers (making such air units fully take part in the battle as attackers). I don't actually know why this property exists, as I don't recall that in any rulesets this should be actually be happening, nor I recall what custom games use this, in case it was specifically added to support any of them.



  • Yes, I know this property but I haven't tested yet. So I just want to implement it for all units if feasible.

    Is creating such a property a easy thing?


  • Admin

    I moved this topic to the "Map Making" category since it concerns map making.


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